Return-path: Received: from mail3.webfaction.com ([70.85.44.146]:50782 "EHLO mail3.webfaction.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751132AbZDNV5B (ORCPT ); Tue, 14 Apr 2009 17:57:01 -0400 Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:19:06 -0400 From: Forest Bond To: "John W. Linville" Cc: Johannes Berg , Marcel Holtmann , Greg KH , Larry Finger , linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org, Dan Williams Subject: Re: [PATCH] Add vt6656 driver to drivers/staging. Message-ID: <20090414141852.GB20470@storm.local.network> (sfid-20090414_235707_613913_7B1EDECE) References: <20090414105200.GE25746@storm.local.network> <1239707258.4778.3.camel@johannes.local> <20090414113928.GA20470@storm.local.network> <1239709727.4778.6.camel@johannes.local> <1239712106.11795.21.camel@violet> <1239713034.17109.10.camel@johannes.local> <20090414130248.GA3291@tuxdriver.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="d9ADC0YsG2v16Js0" In-Reply-To: <20090414130248.GA3291@tuxdriver.com> Sender: linux-wireless-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: --d9ADC0YsG2v16Js0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 09:02:48AM -0400, John W. Linville wrote: > On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 02:43:54PM +0200, Johannes Berg wrote: > > Hi Marcel, > >=20 > > > just to document the irony here. Two or three years ago at OLS, Kyle = and > > > Greg were making fun of Ubuntu merging its 5th wireless stack into th= eir > > > kernel. Now the staging crap is doing exactly the same. > >=20 > > :) > >=20 > > Actually, last I counted it was already 7 or 8 stacks in staging _only_. > > This (and the other patch) will add two more. Not to mention that of > > course we already have something like two and a half stacks in the > > kernel tree (mac80211, in hostapd, and libipw [former ieee80211]). >=20 > FWIW I had started trying to consolidate some code between those three. > I stalled-out a bit and got distracted with the rndis_wlan cfg80211 > bits, but I hope to get back to it. Of course, hostap seems mighty > complex internally -- it might just have to lay there. And libipw > and mac80211 target different types of designs, but I hope they can > eventually share some infrastructure in lib80211. >=20 > None of the above is meant to disagree about the staging crap. > Having that stuff around is at best an optimistic attempt to help a > few stray users... :-) Well, gosh, I understand the criticism here and if I were a kernel develope= r I imagine my perspective would be much the same. But I can't help but feel t= hat there's some amount of hypocrisy when we hammer on a manufacturer to proper= ly license their driver and then let it drop dead when they do. I understand that the problem would be solved if they manufacturers would suddenly "get it," but the scale of social problem preventing that is likel= y too large to change anytime soon. If kernel developers are too busy to support the hardware, why do the manufacturers take so much criticism for releasing binary-only drivers or b= adly licensed drivers, or for neglecting to release technical specifications? If what I'm sensing is correct and there's no practical likelihood of these de= vices getting in-kernel support even with those issues resolved, the criticism al= most seems unjustified. I appreciate what the kernel developers do, of course, and my intention is = not to ruffle feathers. But when a manufacturer that has taken a lot of critic= ism for its approach to the Linux community shows some good will, it seems like= we ought to be able to turn that into something productive. If we can't, what= have we been complaining about? My apologies if I'm way off on this. I haven't been around all that long s= o it is certainly possible. Respectfully, Forest --=20 Forest Bond http://www.alittletooquiet.net http://www.pytagsfs.org --d9ADC0YsG2v16Js0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFJ5JtaRO4fQQdv5AwRAqlJAJsHJuzpe0s24yWP+SyKhLICOAZNfQCg3dJR Bm/Jyviv9Q/Ec09Qgqpxtio= =jDYx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --d9ADC0YsG2v16Js0--