Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 18:10:20 -0700
From: Greg KH <greg@kroah.com>
To: Forest Bond <forest@alittletooquiet.net>
Cc: "John W. Linville" <linville@tuxdriver.com>,
	Johannes Berg <johannes@sipsolutions.net>,
	Marcel Holtmann <marcel@holtmann.org>,
	Larry Finger <Larry.Finger@lwfinger.net>,
	linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org, Dan Williams <dcbw@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Add vt6656 driver to drivers/staging.
Message-ID: <20090415011020.GC10045@kroah.com> (sfid-20090415_031814_065002_C1473CDF)
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On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:19:06AM -0400, Forest Bond wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 09:02:48AM -0400, John W. Linville wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 02:43:54PM +0200, Johannes Berg wrote:
> > > Hi Marcel,
> > > 
> > > > just to document the irony here. Two or three years ago at OLS, Kyle and
> > > > Greg were making fun of Ubuntu merging its 5th wireless stack into their
> > > > kernel. Now the staging crap is doing exactly the same.

Yes we are.  But we are doing it correctly :)

Turns out that people actually want to use their hardware, and no one
else was working on merging these drivers, so that is what staging is
for.

> Well, gosh, I understand the criticism here and if I were a kernel developer I
> imagine my perspective would be much the same.  But I can't help but feel that
> there's some amount of hypocrisy when we hammer on a manufacturer to properly
> license their driver and then let it drop dead when they do.

I agree.

> I understand that the problem would be solved if they manufacturers would
> suddenly "get it," but the scale of social problem preventing that is likely too
> large to change anytime soon.

Agreed.

> If kernel developers are too busy to support the hardware, why do the
> manufacturers take so much criticism for releasing binary-only drivers or badly
> licensed drivers, or for neglecting to release technical specifications?  If
> what I'm sensing is correct and there's no practical likelihood of these devices
> getting in-kernel support even with those issues resolved, the criticism almost
> seems unjustified.
> 
> I appreciate what the kernel developers do, of course, and my intention is not
> to ruffle feathers.  But when a manufacturer that has taken a lot of criticism
> for its approach to the Linux community shows some good will, it seems like we
> ought to be able to turn that into something productive.  If we can't, what have
> we been complaining about?
> 
> My apologies if I'm way off on this.  I haven't been around all that long so it
> is certainly possible.

You aren't way off at all.

Thanks for the patches, I'll get to them in a few days when my "real
job" calms down a bit.  They're now in my queue, and will not get lost.

thanks,

greg k-h