Return-path: Received: from lan.nucleusys.com ([92.247.61.126]:42914 "EHLO zztop.nucleusys.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-FAIL) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1753388AbbETQq1 (ORCPT ); Wed, 20 May 2015 12:46:27 -0400 Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 19:46:13 +0300 From: Petko Manolov To: One Thousand Gnomes Cc: Seth Forshee , "Luis R. Rodriguez" , linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, james.l.morris@oracle.com, serge@hallyn.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org, David Howells , Kyle McMartin , David Woodhouse , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Joey Lee , Rusty Russell , zohar@linux.vnet.ibm.com, mricon@kernel.org Subject: Re: [RFD] linux-firmware key arrangement for firmware signing Message-ID: <20150520164613.GD10473@localhost> (sfid-20150520_184636_133144_2A2A1DCE) References: <20150519200232.GM23057@wotan.suse.de> <20150520140426.GB126473@ubuntu-hedt> <20150520172446.4dab5399@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: <20150520172446.4dab5399@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> Sender: linux-wireless-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: On 15-05-20 17:24:46, One Thousand Gnomes wrote: > > More to the point why do you want to sign firmware files ? Leaving aside the > fact that someone will produce a device with GPLv3 firmware just to p*ss you > off there's the rather more relevant fact that firmware for devices on a so > called "trusted" platform already have signed firmware. For "trusted" systems one would like to make sure everything that goes in has known provenance. Maybe this was the idea? > For external devices I don't normally have access to read system memory > anyway, and signing firmware would achieve nothing unless you start doing > crazy DRM style key exchanges to prove the endpoint is trusted. Any NSA trojan > wifi stick is simply going to nod as the correct firmware is uploaded, and > then ignore it. And if I'm just out to be a pain I can already just plug in a > fake device claiming to be a usb disk with 256 bytes per sector (boom... exit > machine stage right), or for that matter wire a USB stick with 5v connected to > the mains at the nearest wall socket. Yep, gaining physical access to the system is a game over. It is arguable how "trusted" a networked machine could be and i guess the answer is "not much"... Petko