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Subject: Re: wireless: guidelines for user space interfaces
To:     Kalle Valo <kvalo@codeaurora.org>,
        Brian Norris <briannorris@chromium.org>
Cc:     Ping-Ke Shih <pkshih@realtek.com>, tony0620emma@gmail.com,
        linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org, steventing@realtek.com,
        David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>,
        Jakub Kicinski <kuba@kernel.org>
References: <20210422030413.9738-1-pkshih@realtek.com>
 <20210422030413.9738-2-pkshih@realtek.com> <YMPqT8VH5alHQXXA@google.com>
 <87mtnf52z9.fsf_-_@codeaurora.org>
From:   Arend van Spriel <arend.vanspriel@broadcom.com>
Message-ID: <f670553b-274e-0801-50b4-a8e9d7fcf54e@broadcom.com>
Date:   Mon, 11 Oct 2021 11:40:40 +0200
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On 10/11/2021 11:23 AM, Kalle Valo wrote:
> (changing subject, was "Re: [PATCH v2 2/2] rtw88: add debugfs to force lowest basic rate")
> 
> Brian Norris <briannorris@chromium.org> writes:
> 
>> BTW, if we have clear guidelines on debugfs, module parameters, etc.,
>> maybe those should be going on the wiki? I know this came up before:
>>
>> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-wireless/87d09u7tyr.fsf@codeaurora.org/
>>
>> At this point, I'm willing to write such guidelines, if I get an ack
>> from the relevant folks (I guess that's just Kalle?). It probably
>> belongs somewhere in this tree:
>>
>> https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/developers/documentation
>>
>> similar to this:
>> https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/developers/documentation/nl80211#vendor-specific_api
>> except it's not really an nl80211 thing. Suggestions welcome.
> 
> I think this is a very good idea. Having general guidelines for wireless
> drivers using user space interfaces would help both people submitting
> patches and also people like me reviewing the patches.
> 
> We should try to get an ack for the guidelines at least from Johannes,
> but I would prefer also involve Jakub and Dave (CCed) as they might have
> some input from the network subsystem point of view.
> 
> Just to get this started, here's a draft list I came up of different
> user space interfaces upstream wireless drivers are using:
> 
> * generic nl80211 (excluding testmode and vendor commands)
> 
> * nl80211 testmode commands
> 
> * nl80211 vendor commands
> 
> * sysfs[1]
> 
> * debugfs
> 
> * relayfs
> 
> * configfs[1]
> 
> * module parameters
> 
> * thermal subsystem
> 
> * firmware_request()
> 
> I'm not saying that we need to document all these in the first version,
> I'm just trying to come up a comprehensive overview how wireless drivers
> interact with the user space. And I'm sure I missed something. so please
> do fill in.

Not sure if all of the above can be considered user-space interfaces, 
but wireless driver developers could benefit from guidelines for them 
regardless. Maybe following needs to be considered as well although I 
think cfg80211 is taking care of it:

* rfkill

Regards,
Arend

>> Side note: it could really use some cleanup -- like this page:
>> https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/developers/process
> 
> Heh, that is old information. TBH in practise I maintain only the
> submittingpatches page (link in the signature), other pages I rarely
> touch. And naturally I also look after ath10k and ath11k pages.
> 
> Any volunteers to clean that up?
> 
> [1] Actually I don't know if there are any valid use cases for sysfs and
>      configfs at the moment, but I'll include them in the list for
>      completeness.
> 

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