>>I don't like random applications blocking my sound card.
>So don't use random applications.
I have ICE1724, a very good sound card to my taste, works like a charm. But
with ALSA I had a really hard time to configure it properly, wanna see
my .asoundrc? And I am not sure I have done it right (== the best possible
way). I have read everything on http://www.alsa-project.org/documentation.php
about .asoundrc. When I am using Skype I have to rename .asoundrc to
something else in order to get it working. When I am doing some changes
to .asoundrc I have to restart the app. Is there a tool which can be used to
configure .asoundrc? I want to be able to hear sound from flashplayer on my
reciever or in my headphones -- how? It's not quite clear to me how to get
full duplex working with my .asoundrc.
--
Anton Petrusevich
On 06/28/2007 02:42 PM, Anton Petrusevich wrote:
Please always use Reply-to-All on this list -- subscribers here like to also
get personal copies.
> I have ICE1724, a very good sound card to my taste, works like a charm.
> But with ALSA I had a really hard time to configure it properly, wanna
> see my .asoundrc?
Not particularly. I don't count as a great fan of the config file syntax and
don't use any configuration myself. I moreover don't own an ICE1724 card, so
I'm not familiar with it's possibilities and quirks and generally, if this
thread turns into guiding every user on the list through his/her respective
problems with ALSA I have to respectfully decline...
> And I am not sure I have done it right (== the best possible way). I have
> read everything on http://www.alsa-project.org/documentation.php about
> .asoundrc. When I am using Skype I have to rename .asoundrc to something
> else in order to get it working.
The first thing I don't know is why you need an .asoundrc at all. I've CCed
the alsa-user list -- some subscribers to it probably have experience with
ice1724 and might be able to get you specific advice if you want.
Renaming .asoundrc seems wrong in any case. If you need anything special for
Skype, it seems you could always define it in a seperate "skype" PCM and
use that only from skype.
> When I am doing some changes to .asoundrc I have to restart the app.
Yes, as far as I'm aware you do.
> Is there a tool which can be used to configure .asoundrc?
vi.
> I want to be able to hear sound from flashplayer on my reciever or in my
> headphones -- how?
Not sure? Is your receiver on an analog output and are your headphones
connected directly to a card output as well? In that case, "or" would seem
to be just a mixer issue, and "and" would be dependent on hardware abilities
and needs someone who knows your specific card and setup.
> It's not quite clear to me how to get full duplex working with my
> .asoundrc.
It's not working without an .asoundrc?
But -- I'll personally not continue this very specific subthread simply due
to not having the hardware, nor great generic experience with an .asounrc
due to not needing it myself. When I do use one, I alway start by googling
up a few examples and take it from there. Perhaps someone from alsa-user
will step in.
Rene.
On Thursday 28 June 2007 17:02:55 you wrote:
> Please always use Reply-to-All on this list -- subscribers here like to
> also get personal copies.
I am not subscribed to linux-kernel, I am reading it on the web.
> > I have ICE1724, a very good sound card to my taste, works like a charm.
> > But with ALSA I had a really hard time to configure it properly, wanna
> > see my .asoundrc?
> Not particularly. I don't count as a great fan of the config file syntax
> and don't use any configuration myself.
Do you have an SPDIF out? If you don't then you don't need .asoundrc of
course.
> The first thing I don't know is why you need an .asoundrc at all.
Because I want to route it differently, sometimes to spdif, sometimes to
headphones, sometimes to mix sounds from different apps. Well, my config may
be a bit ancient as it was written when dmix was not default.
> I've CCed
> the alsa-user list -- some subscribers to it probably have experience with
> ice1724 and might be able to get you specific advice if you want.
I have read some advices for ice1724 already. The main reason I wrote to
lkml -- I hate .asounrc and reading docs about it. I hate "flexebility" that
requires restarting apps after changing sound routes.
> > Is there a tool which can be used to configure .asoundrc?
> vi.
I perfectly know this one. I would like to use some really user-friendly tool.
>
> > I want to be able to hear sound from flashplayer on my reciever or in my
> > headphones -- how?
>
> Not sure? Is your receiver on an analog output and are your headphones
My receiver is on spdif out.
> connected directly to a card output as well? In that case, "or" would seem
> to be just a mixer issue, and "and" would be dependent on hardware
> abilities and needs someone who knows your specific card and setup.
>
> > It's not quite clear to me how to get full duplex working with my
> > .asoundrc.
>
> It's not working without an .asoundrc?
Looks like it's not working with. As skype is not so informative.
> But -- I'll personally not continue this very specific subthread simply due
> to not having the hardware, nor great generic experience with an .asounrc
> due to not needing it myself. When I do use one, I alway start by googling
> up a few examples and take it from there. Perhaps someone from alsa-user
> will step in.
I am not about ice1724 or .asounrc here. I am trying to talk about
user-friendliness of ALSA. It's very unfriendly.
--
Anton Petrusevich
On Thu, 2007-06-28 at 18:34 +0200, Anton Petrusevich wrote:
> > Please always use Reply-to-All on this list -- subscribers here like to
> > also get personal copies.
>
> I am not subscribed to linux-kernel, I am reading it on the web.
Then please subscribe just for the time you want to participate to the
discussion.
Xav
On 06/28/2007 06:34 PM, Anton Petrusevich wrote:
> Do you have an SPDIF out? If you don't then you don't need .asoundrc of
> course.
I do on a number of cards, although being without sensible equipment (other
than other soundcards) with an S/PDIF _in_ I don't actually use it for more
than testing purposes.
Why do I need or want an .asoundrc? What's wrong with just using the iec958
PCM device? Yes, I checked, and ICE1724 has it defined.
>> The first thing I don't know is why you need an .asoundrc at all.
>
> Because I want to route it differently, sometimes to spdif, sometimes to
> headphones,
These two consist of specifying different devices (iec958 and <see below>)
> sometimes to mix sounds from different apps. Well, my config may be a bit
> ancient as it was written when dmix was not default.
Right, it now is. The "default" device on your card uses both the dmix and
the dsnoop (for the capture direction) plugins and if you want direct access
without going through those plugins, you can select the direct "hw" devices
simply by specifying them.
> I have read some advices for ice1724 already. The main reason I wrote to
> lkml -- I hate .asounrc and reading docs about it. I hate "flexebility"
> that requires restarting apps after changing sound routes.
How would you _like_ things to work? asoundrc is a configuration file for
alsa-lib. Would you perhaps suggest that alsa-lib expand its API with a
snd_all_your_base_are_changed_out_from_under_you() application callback and
sets notifies on its configuration file(s)? The application may have done
things like enumerate the available PCM devices when it started up. Heck,
maybe it's _busy_ playing through some "route" that you just changed...
>>> Is there a tool which can be used to configure .asoundrc?
>> vi.
>
> I perfectly know this one. I would like to use some really user-friendly
> tool.
Some would say "emacs" now, but I'll not be as childish as that. I'm not
like that. At all.
> I am not about ice1724 or .asounrc here. I am trying to talk about
> user-friendliness of ALSA. It's very unfriendly.
In another recent post in this thread, I linked to:
http://forum.skype.com/lofiversion/index.php/t85880.html
Note how it starts with:
"Now that Skype uses ALSA for its sound I/O, I can set it up to work
properly with my multi-channel audio interface (an Echo Gina24 with an
8-channel ADAT interface chained onto it)."
That, as far as I'm concerned, says quite a bit. It says the flexibility is
welcomed and used. Sure, simple things should be simple and with myself
being a non-beginner-level user (user, not an audio professional) still not
using or needing any configuration indicates to me that things have been
partitioned correctly.
Yes, I can lose my way in the configuration as well when I play with it but
I expect I could actually fairly easily remedy this by learning more about
it before I start. And I expect for example that you hadn't heard of the
iec958 PCM device before this message so that you only _think_ stuff is complex.
Generally, I tend to have some opinions on this blind insistance people seem
to have they have an inalienable right to operate complex technology without
turning their bloody brain on. I've been ranting just about enough now
though so I'll not drag general "user friendliness" into it and just say
that if I would have, it would've probably included the line "go buy a copy
of windows and be gone" at some point.
Rene.
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007, Rene Herman wrote:
> On 06/28/2007 06:34 PM, Anton Petrusevich wrote:
>
>> Do you have an SPDIF out? If you don't then you don't need .asoundrc of
>> course.
>
> I do on a number of cards, although being without sensible equipment (other
> than other soundcards) with an S/PDIF _in_ I don't actually use it for more
> than testing purposes.
Sorry please keep all "I don't need" or "I don't count" words for
themeselve.
We are taking not about you but about *ALSA*.
kloczek
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
*Ludzie nie maj? problem?w, tylko sobie sami je stwarzaj?*
-----------------------------------------------------------
Tomasz K?oczko, sys adm @zie.pg.gda.pl|*e-mail: [email protected]*
On 06/28/2007 09:33 PM, Tomasz Kłoczko wrote:
>> On 06/28/2007 06:34 PM, Anton Petrusevich wrote:
>>
>>> Do you have an SPDIF out? If you don't then you don't need .asoundrc
>>> of course.
>>
>> I do on a number of cards, although being without sensible equipment
>> (other than other soundcards) with an S/PDIF _in_ I don't actually use
>> it for more than testing purposes.
>
> Sorry please keep all "I don't need" or "I don't count" words for
> themeselve. We are taking not about you but about *ALSA*.
Read the next lines. And then piss off, retard troll.
Rene.
Anton Petrusevich wrote:
> On Thursday 28 June 2007 17:02:55 you wrote:
>> Please always use Reply-to-All on this list -- subscribers here like to
>> also get personal copies.
>
> I am not subscribed to linux-kernel, I am reading it on the web.
>
>>> I have ICE1724, a very good sound card to my taste, works like a charm.
>>> But with ALSA I had a really hard time to configure it properly, wanna
>>> see my .asoundrc?
>> Not particularly. I don't count as a great fan of the config file syntax
>> and don't use any configuration myself.
>
> Do you have an SPDIF out? If you don't then you don't need .asoundrc of
> course.
>
>> The first thing I don't know is why you need an .asoundrc at all.
>
> Because I want to route it differently, sometimes to spdif, sometimes to
> headphones, sometimes to mix sounds from different apps. Well, my config may
> be a bit ancient as it was written when dmix was not default.
>
>> I've CCed
>> the alsa-user list -- some subscribers to it probably have experience with
>> ice1724 and might be able to get you specific advice if you want.
>
> I have read some advices for ice1724 already. The main reason I wrote to
> lkml -- I hate .asounrc and reading docs about it. I hate "flexebility" that
> requires restarting apps after changing sound routes.
>
>>> Is there a tool which can be used to configure .asoundrc?
>> vi.
>
> I perfectly know this one. I would like to use some really user-friendly tool.
>
>>> I want to be able to hear sound from flashplayer on my reciever or in my
>>> headphones -- how?
>> Not sure? Is your receiver on an analog output and are your headphones
>
> My receiver is on spdif out.
>
>> connected directly to a card output as well? In that case, "or" would seem
>> to be just a mixer issue, and "and" would be dependent on hardware
>> abilities and needs someone who knows your specific card and setup.
>>
>>> It's not quite clear to me how to get full duplex working with my
>>> .asoundrc.
>> It's not working without an .asoundrc?
>
> Looks like it's not working with. As skype is not so informative.
>
>> But -- I'll personally not continue this very specific subthread simply due
>> to not having the hardware, nor great generic experience with an .asounrc
>> due to not needing it myself. When I do use one, I alway start by googling
>> up a few examples and take it from there. Perhaps someone from alsa-user
>> will step in.
>
> I am not about ice1724 or .asounrc here. I am trying to talk about
> user-friendliness of ALSA. It's very unfriendly.
In the case of S/PDIF output on ice1724 (and probably other cards), it
would be nice if ALSA defaulted to routing default audio to both the
S/PDIF and analog ports, as this is what most users would normally
expect.. The Windows drivers work like that, but on Linux you have to
pick one or the other (at least without a bunch of mucking with the
config file).
--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from [email protected]
Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/
On Thursday 28 June 2007, Anton Petrusevich wrote:
> > > I have ICE1724, a very good sound card to my taste, works like a charm.
> > > But with ALSA I had a really hard time to configure it properly, wanna
> > > see my .asoundrc?
> >
> > Not particularly. I don't count as a great fan of the config file syntax
> > and don't use any configuration myself.
>
> Do you have an SPDIF out? If you don't then you don't need .asoundrc of
> course.
With a properly coded ALSA app, one doesn't need a .asoundrc. You would
enter "plug:spdif" [or something similar] into the pcm device name entry text
field.
Or if you want to point all apps to that device you actually could add this to
your .asoundrc:
pcm.!default {
type plug
slace.pcm "spdif"
}
[or something similar. Too lazy to look up the exact syntax now]. And then
every app using the ALSA API _correctly_ should use that device [if
configured to use the default device, which should be the _default_ ;)]
Sadly it seems pretty much everyone, especially closed source apps get this
wrong (but to be fair: loads of open source software gets it wrong, too,
ekiga for example).
What they do wrong is that they try to present a list of devices to the user
from which he can choose [which isn't bad in itself] and also do _not_ offer
any way to specify an arbitrary PCM device name.
Sadly, the ALSA api docs do not stress this point often enough, so it gets
missed pretty often.
I once posted an [not original, i suppose people before me got that idea, too]
idea to the alsa-dev list a while back, proposing a way to be able
to "register" pcm devices defined in .asoundrc/asound.conf, so that apps that
want to present a list to the user can simply ask ALSA for a list of devices
nd hav the user defined ones included. Sadly i don't think it ever went
anywhere..
> Because I want to route it differently, sometimes to spdif, sometimes to
> headphones, sometimes to mix sounds from different apps. Well, my config
> may be a bit ancient as it was written when dmix was not default.
Well, like i said, the application in question should allow you to enter any
pcm name you want. If it doesn't it's broken.
> I have read some advices for ice1724 already. The main reason I wrote to
> lkml -- I hate .asounrc and reading docs about it. I hate "flexebility"
> that requires restarting apps after changing sound routes.
I own a ice1712, too, but i only use it for JACK and it works brilliantly
there. But i know it can be a bitch to configure since it sports a 10/12
channel device which can be too complicated for some ALSA apps making
assumptions about the device they get ;)
> I perfectly know this one. I would like to use some really user-friendly
> tool.
I don't know of any. But any text editor will do.
> > > I want to be able to hear sound from flashplayer on my reciever or in
> > > my headphones -- how?
> >
> > Not sure? Is your receiver on an analog output and are your headphones
>
> My receiver is on spdif out.
The flashplayer has been another one of these badly coded apps ;) Maybe that
has changed in recent releases.
> > It's not working without an .asoundrc?
>
> Looks like it's not working with. As skype is not so informative.
But skype is a piece of crap anyways. It also doesn't get any sounds out of my
other [non ice1712] card. Neither in OSS nor in ALSA mode. Not a beep. And
yeah, the device is available [and even has hardware multiplexing]..
> I am not about ice1724 or .asounrc here. I am trying to talk about
> user-friendliness of ALSA. It's very unfriendly.
I agree. ALSA is not very userfriendly. Especially the missing proper device
enumeration support is a problem.
But 99.9% of problems people have with ALSA are due to badly coded apps..
Regards,
Flo
--
Palimm Palimm!
http://tapas.affenbande.org
On Friday 29 June 2007 12:30:54 Florian Schmidt wrote:
> Sadly it seems pretty much everyone, especially closed source apps get this
> wrong (but to be fair: loads of open source software gets it wrong, too,
> ekiga for example).
Isn't that because there's a perferct documentation for programming ALSA but
authors of those apps can't read?
> Well, like i said, the application in question should allow you to enter
> any pcm name you want. If it doesn't it's broken.
But in real life I have to use flashplayer, for example.
> I don't know of any. But any text editor will do.
I am with Linux since 1997, I know bunch of them. I used to use XEmacs, but
now I prefer VIM. But I am not a .asoundrc programmer, I want to be just a
user.
> The flashplayer has been another one of these badly coded apps ;) Maybe
> that has changed in recent releases.
[...]
> But skype is a piece of crap anyways. It also doesn't get any sounds out of
> my other [non ice1712] card. Neither in OSS nor in ALSA mode. Not a beep.
> And yeah, the device is available [and even has hardware multiplexing]..
> But 99.9% of problems people have with ALSA are due to badly coded apps..
"Those apps are crap and ALSA is perfect". I hoped some ALSA-developers would
think of improving usability of ALSA, or I would not talk here.
> I agree. ALSA is not very userfriendly. Especially the missing proper
> device enumeration support is a problem.
It's good that people are not thinking that ALSA is already perfect, it leaves
us (me) a hope it will be improved.
--
Anton Petrusevich
On Friday 29 June 2007, Anton Petrusevich wrote:
> On Friday 29 June 2007 12:30:54 Florian Schmidt wrote:
> > Sadly it seems pretty much everyone, especially closed source apps get
> > this wrong (but to be fair: loads of open source software gets it wrong,
> > too, ekiga for example).
>
> Isn't that because there's a perferct documentation for programming ALSA
> but authors of those apps can't read?
No, like i said, the docs are unclear on these issues :) That's why so many
people get it wrong.
> But in real life I have to use flashplayer, for example.
Yes, in these cases flashplayer should use either the default pcm device
[which the user can then tweak to his liking] or provide some means to
configure it. for example via a dotfile in the user's homedir. This is not
ALSA's fault.
> I am with Linux since 1997, I know bunch of them. I used to use XEmacs, but
> now I prefer VIM. But I am not a .asoundrc programmer, I want to be just a
> user.
I agree that it would be nice to have a tool to select the default device in
ALSA.
> > But skype is a piece of crap anyways. It also doesn't get any sounds out
> > of my other [non ice1712] card. Neither in OSS nor in ALSA mode. Not a
> > beep. And yeah, the device is available [and even has hardware
> > multiplexing]..
> >
> > But 99.9% of problems people have with ALSA are due to badly coded apps..
>
> "Those apps are crap and ALSA is perfect". I hoped some ALSA-developers
> would think of improving usability of ALSA, or I would not talk here.
ALSA must be improved, too. But that doesn't change a thing about these apps
misusing the ALSA API and people blaming ALSA lateron. Which is wrong.
> It's good that people are not thinking that ALSA is already perfect, it
> leaves us (me) a hope it will be improved.
I don't think any serious person believes that ALSA is perfect :)
Regards,
Flo
--
Palimm Palimm!
http://tapas.affenbande.org
Anton Petrusevich wrote:
>
> Is there a tool which can be used to configure .asoundrc?
>
There is an QT4 based one [1] and a somewhat old KDE based tool [2].
Regards,
Gabriel C
[1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/aplugedit/
[2] http://sourceforge.net/projects/kasound/
Robert Hancock <hancockr <at> shaw.ca> writes:
> In the case of S/PDIF output on ice1724 (and probably other cards), it
> would be nice if ALSA defaulted to routing default audio to both the
> S/PDIF and analog ports, as this is what most users would normally
> expect.. The Windows drivers work like that, but on Linux you have to
> pick one or the other (at least without a bunch of mucking with the
> config file).
I believe some cards can't do this in fact which might be argument due to
consistency. Otherwise I don't so much have an opinion on whether or not this
should be default though...
Rene