Hello everyone,
I've updated the btrfs git trees to 2.6.28-rc5 and tested against
linux-next.
We've knocked a bunch of things off the todo list since I last posted,
including compression (mount -o compress) and the ability to create
subvols and snapshots anywhere in the FS.
There are a small number of disk format changes pending, which I put off
in favor of making compression stable/fast. We'll hammer these out
shortly.
The btrfs kernel code is here:
http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/mason/btrfs-unstable.git;a=summary
And the utilities are here:
http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/mason/btrfs-progs-unstable.git;a=summary
-chris
On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 07:18 -0500, Chris Mason wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I've updated the btrfs git trees to 2.6.28-rc5 and tested against
> linux-next.
>
> We've knocked a bunch of things off the todo list since I last posted,
> including compression (mount -o compress) and the ability to create
> subvols and snapshots anywhere in the FS.
>
> There are a small number of disk format changes pending, which I put off
> in favor of making compression stable/fast. We'll hammer these out
> shortly.
>
Just an update, while I still have a long todo list and plenty of things
to fix in the code, these src trees have been updated with a disk format
I hope to maintain compatibility with from here on. There are still
format changes planned, but should go in through the compat mechanisms
in the sources now.
The btrfs trees are still at 2.6.28-rc5, but I just tested against
linux-next without problems.
> The btrfs kernel code is here:
> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/mason/btrfs-unstable.git;a=summary
>
> And the utilities are here:
>
> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/mason/btrfs-progs-unstable.git;a=summary
-chris
Hi Andrew,
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:34:56 -0500 Chris Mason <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Just an update, while I still have a long todo list and plenty of things
> to fix in the code, these src trees have been updated with a disk format
> I hope to maintain compatibility with from here on. There are still
> format changes planned, but should go in through the compat mechanisms
> in the sources now.
>
> The btrfs trees are still at 2.6.28-rc5, but I just tested against
> linux-next without problems.
Do you think this is ready to be added to the end of linux-next, yet? Or
is this more -mm material?
--
Cheers,
Stephen Rothwell [email protected]
http://www.canb.auug.org.au/~sfr/
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:14:36 +1100 Stephen Rothwell <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Andrew,
>
> On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:34:56 -0500 Chris Mason <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Just an update, while I still have a long todo list and plenty of things
> > to fix in the code, these src trees have been updated with a disk format
> > I hope to maintain compatibility with from here on. There are still
> > format changes planned, but should go in through the compat mechanisms
> > in the sources now.
> >
> > The btrfs trees are still at 2.6.28-rc5, but I just tested against
> > linux-next without problems.
>
> Do you think this is ready to be added to the end of linux-next, yet? Or
> is this more -mm material?
I'd prefer that it go into linux-next in the usual fashion. But the
first step is review..
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:06:04 -0800 Andrew Morton <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I'd prefer that it go into linux-next in the usual fashion. But the
> first step is review..
OK, I wasn't sure where it was up to (not being a file system person).
--
Cheers,
Stephen Rothwell [email protected]
http://www.canb.auug.org.au/~sfr/
On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 20:06 -0800, Andrew Morton wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:14:36 +1100 Stephen Rothwell <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Andrew,
> >
> > On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:34:56 -0500 Chris Mason <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Just an update, while I still have a long todo list and plenty of things
> > > to fix in the code, these src trees have been updated with a disk format
> > > I hope to maintain compatibility with from here on. There are still
> > > format changes planned, but should go in through the compat mechanisms
> > > in the sources now.
> > >
> > > The btrfs trees are still at 2.6.28-rc5, but I just tested against
> > > linux-next without problems.
> >
> > Do you think this is ready to be added to the end of linux-next, yet? Or
> > is this more -mm material?
>
> I'd prefer that it go into linux-next in the usual fashion. But the
> first step is review..
I'm updating the various docs on the btrfs wiki. From a kernel impact
point of view, btrfs only changes fs/Kconfig and fs/Makefile.
Some of the most visible problems in the code are:
No support for fs blocksizes other than the page size. This includes
data blocks and btree leaves/nodes. In both cases, the infrastructure
to do it is about 1/2 there, but some ugly problems remain.
btrfs_file_write should just be removed in favor of write_begin/end.
Right now, the main thing btrfs_file_write does is the dance to setup
delalloc, so this should be fairly easy.
The multi-device code uses a very simple brute force scan from userland
to populate the list of devices that belong to a given FS. Kay Sievers
has some ideas on hotplug magic to make this less dumb. (The scan isn't
required for single device filesystems).
extent_io.c should be split up into two files, one for the extent_buffer
code and one for the state bit code.
struct-funcs.c needs a big flashing neon sign about what it does and
why. The extent_buffer interface needs much clearer documentation
around why it is there and how it works.
There are too many worker threads. At least some of them should be
shared between filesystems instead of started for each FS. Each pool of
worker thread represents some operation that would end up deadlocking if
it shared threads with another pool.
There are too many memory allocations on the IO submission path. It
needs mempools and other steps to limit the amount of ram used to write
a single block.
The IO submission path is generally twisty, with helper threads and
lookup functions. There is quite a bit going on here in terms of
asynchronous checksumming and compression and it needs better
documentation.
ENOSPC == BUG()
The extent allocation tree is what records which extents are allocated
on disk, and tree blocks for the extent allocation tree allocated from
the extent allocation tree. This recursion is controlled by deferring
some operations for later processing, and the resulting complexity needs
better documentation.
-chris
On Dec 11, 2008 09:43 -0500, Chris Mason wrote:
> The multi-device code uses a very simple brute force scan from userland
> to populate the list of devices that belong to a given FS. Kay Sievers
> has some ideas on hotplug magic to make this less dumb. (The scan isn't
> required for single device filesystems).
This should use libblkid to do the scanning of the devices, and it can
cache the results for efficiency. Best would be to have the same LABEL+UUID
for all devices in the same filesystem, and then once any of these devices
are found the mount.btrfs code can query the rest of the devices to find
the remaining parts of the filesystem.
Cheers, Andreas
--
Andreas Dilger
Sr. Staff Engineer, Lustre Group
Sun Microsystems of Canada, Inc.
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 22:03, Andreas Dilger <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Dec 11, 2008 09:43 -0500, Chris Mason wrote:
>> The multi-device code uses a very simple brute force scan from userland
>> to populate the list of devices that belong to a given FS. Kay Sievers
>> has some ideas on hotplug magic to make this less dumb. (The scan isn't
>> required for single device filesystems).
>
> This should use libblkid to do the scanning of the devices, and it can
> cache the results for efficiency. Best would be to have the same LABEL+UUID
> for all devices in the same filesystem, and then once any of these devices
> are found the mount.btrfs code can query the rest of the devices to find
> the remaining parts of the filesystem.
Which is another way to do something you should not do that way in the
first place, just with a library instead of your own code.
Brute-force scanning /dev with a single thread will not work reliably
in many setups we need to support. Sure, it's good to have it for a
rescue system, it will work fine or your workstation, but definitely
not for boxes with many devices where you don't know how they behave.
Just do:
$ modprobe scsi_debug max_luns=8 num_parts=2
$ echo 1 > /sys/module/scsi_debug/parameters/every_nth
$ echo 4 > /sys/module/scsi_debug/parameters/opts
$ ls -l /sys/class/block/ | wc -l
45
and then call any binary doing /dev scanning, and wait (in this case)
for ~2 hours to return.
Also, the blkid cache file uses major/minor numbers or kernel device
names, which will also not help in many setups we have to support
today.
The original btrfs topic, leading to this, is here:
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg01048.html
Thanks,
Kay
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 23:55 +0100, Kay Sievers wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 22:03, Andreas Dilger <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Dec 11, 2008 09:43 -0500, Chris Mason wrote:
> >> The multi-device code uses a very simple brute force scan from userland
> >> to populate the list of devices that belong to a given FS. Kay Sievers
> >> has some ideas on hotplug magic to make this less dumb. (The scan isn't
> >> required for single device filesystems).
> >
> > This should use libblkid to do the scanning of the devices, and it can
> > cache the results for efficiency. Best would be to have the same LABEL+UUID
> > for all devices in the same filesystem, and then once any of these devices
> > are found the mount.btrfs code can query the rest of the devices to find
> > the remaining parts of the filesystem.
>
> Which is another way to do something you should not do that way in the
> first place, just with a library instead of your own code.
>
Well, its the same library everyone else is using to do things they
shouldn't be doing ;)
I'm very interested in your new scheme for device discovery. It seems
like the best and most reasonable way to go forward.
But, tossing things into libblkid also makes sense. It isn't much work,
and it allows btrfs to fit in with the established norms while we
experiment with new and better ways to hook it all together.
-chris
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 02:37, Chris Mason <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 23:55 +0100, Kay Sievers wrote:
>> On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 22:03, Andreas Dilger <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > On Dec 11, 2008 09:43 -0500, Chris Mason wrote:
>> >> The multi-device code uses a very simple brute force scan from userland
>> >> to populate the list of devices that belong to a given FS. Kay Sievers
>> >> has some ideas on hotplug magic to make this less dumb. (The scan isn't
>> >> required for single device filesystems).
>> >
>> > This should use libblkid to do the scanning of the devices, and it can
>> > cache the results for efficiency. Best would be to have the same LABEL+UUID
>> > for all devices in the same filesystem, and then once any of these devices
>> > are found the mount.btrfs code can query the rest of the devices to find
>> > the remaining parts of the filesystem.
>>
>> Which is another way to do something you should not do that way in the
>> first place, just with a library instead of your own code.
>>
>
> Well, its the same library everyone else is using to do things they
> shouldn't be doing ;)
Util-linux-ng can be configured to use libvolume_id and udev data, and
it's not used in SUSE and Ubuntu for exactly the reason mentioned. :)
Kay
A very interesting article wrotete by Jeff Bonwick for Andrew --
"Rampant Layering Violation?"
http://blogs.sun.com/bonwick/entry/rampant_layering_violation
2008/12/18 Andrew Morton <[email protected]>:
> On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 08:23:44 -0500
> Christoph Hellwig <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> FYI: here's a little writeup I did this summer on support for
>> filesystems spanning multiple block devices:
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> === Notes on support for multiple devices for a single filesystem ===
>>
>> == Intro ==
>>
>> Btrfs (and an experimental XFS version) can support multiple underlying block
>> devices for a single filesystem instances in a generalized and flexible way.
>>
>> Unlike the support for external log devices in ext3, jfs, reiserfs, XFS, and
>> the special real-time device in XFS all data and metadata may be spread over a
>> potentially large number of block devices, and not just one (or two)
>>
>>
>> == Requirements ==
>>
>> We want a scheme to support these complex filesystem topologies in way
>> that is
>>
>> a) easy to setup and non-fragile for the users
>> b) scalable to a large number of disks in the system
>> c) recoverable without requiring user space running first
>> d) generic enough to work for multiple filesystems or other consumers
>>
>> Requirement a) means that a multiple-device filesystem should be mountable
>> by a simple fstab entry (UUID/LABEL or some other cookie) which continues
>> to work when the filesystem topology changes.
>
> "device topology"?
>
>> Requirement b) implies we must not do a scan over all available block devices
>> in large systems, but use an event-based callout on detection of new block
>> devices.
>>
>> Requirement c) means there must be some version to add devices to a filesystem
>> by kernel command lines, even if this is not the default way, and might require
>> additional knowledge from the user / system administrator.
>>
>> Requirement d) means that we should not implement this mechanism inside a
>> single filesystem.
>>
>
> One thing I've never seen comprehensively addressed is: why do this in
> the filesystem at all? Why not let MD take care of all this and
> present a single block device to the fs layer?
>
> Lots of filesystems are violating this, and I'm sure the reasons for
> this are good, but this document seems like a suitable place in which to
> briefly decribe those reasons.
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in
> the body of a message to [email protected]
> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>
--
Thanks & Best Regards
Liu Hui
--
FYI: here's a little writeup I did this summer on support for
filesystems spanning multiple block devices:
--
=== Notes on support for multiple devices for a single filesystem ===
== Intro ==
Btrfs (and an experimental XFS version) can support multiple underlying block
devices for a single filesystem instances in a generalized and flexible way.
Unlike the support for external log devices in ext3, jfs, reiserfs, XFS, and
the special real-time device in XFS all data and metadata may be spread over a
potentially large number of block devices, and not just one (or two)
== Requirements ==
We want a scheme to support these complex filesystem topologies in way
that is
a) easy to setup and non-fragile for the users
b) scalable to a large number of disks in the system
c) recoverable without requiring user space running first
d) generic enough to work for multiple filesystems or other consumers
Requirement a) means that a multiple-device filesystem should be mountable
by a simple fstab entry (UUID/LABEL or some other cookie) which continues
to work when the filesystem topology changes.
Requirement b) implies we must not do a scan over all available block devices
in large systems, but use an event-based callout on detection of new block
devices.
Requirement c) means there must be some version to add devices to a filesystem
by kernel command lines, even if this is not the default way, and might require
additional knowledge from the user / system administrator.
Requirement d) means that we should not implement this mechanism inside a
single filesystem.
== Prior art ==
* External log and realtime volume
The most common way to specify the external log device and the XFS real time
device is to have a mount option that contains the path to the block special
device for it. This variant means a mount option is always required, and
requires the device name doesn't change, which is enough with udev-generated
unique device names (/dev/disk/by-{label,uuid}).
An alternative way, supported by optionally by ext3 and reiserfs and
exclusively supported by jfs is to open the journal device by the device
number (dev_t) of the block special device. While this doesn't require
an additional mount option when the device number is stored in the filesystem
superblock it relies on the device number being stable which is getting
increasingly unlikely in complex storage topologies.
* RAID (MD) and LVM
Software RAID and volume managers, although not strictly filesystems,
have a similar very similar problem finding their devices. The traditional
solution used for early versions of the Linux MD driver and LVM version 1
was to hook into the partitions scanning code and add device with the
right partition type to a kernel-internal list of potential RAID / LVM
devices. This approach has the advantage of being simple to implement,
fast, reliable and not requiring additional user space programs in the boot
process. The downside is that it only works with specific partition table
formats that allow specifying a partition type, and doesn't work with
unpartitioned disks at all. Recent MD setups and LVM2 thus move the scanning
to user space, typically using a command iterating over all block device
nodes and performing the format-specific scanning. While this is more flexible
than the in-kernel scanning, it scales very badly to a large number of
block devices, and requires additional user space commands to run early
in the boot process. A variant of this schemes runs a scanning callout
from udev once disk device are detected, which avoids the scanning overhead.
== High-level design considerations ==
Due to requirement b) we need a layer that finds devices for a single
fstab entry. We can either do this in user space, or in kernel space. As we've
traditionally always done UUID/LABEL to device mapping in userspace, and we
already have libvolume_id and libblkid dealing with the specialized case
of UUID/LABEL to single device mapping I would recommend to keep doing
this in user space and try to reuse the libvolume_id / libblkid.
There are to options to perform the assembly of the device list for
a filesystem:
1) whenever libvolume_id / libblkid find a device detected as a multi-device
capable filesystem it gets added to a list of all devices of this
particular filesystem type.
On mount type mount(8) or a mount.fstype helpers calls out to the
libraries to get a list of devices belonging to this filesystem
type and translates them to device names, which can be passed to
the kernel on the mount command line.
Advantage: Requires a mount.fstype helper or fs-specific knowledge
in mount(8).
Disadvantages: Required libvolume_id / libblkid to keep state.
2) whenever libvolume_id / libblkid find a device detected as a multi-device
capable filesystem they call into the kernel through and ioctl / sysfs /
etc to add it to a list in kernel space. The kernel code then manages
to select the right filesystem instances, and either adds it to an already
running instance, or prepares a list for a future mount.
Advantages: keeps state in the kernel instead of in libraries
Disadvantages: requires and additional user interface to mount
c) will be deal with an option that allows adding named block devices
on the mount command line, which is already required for design 1) but
would have to be implemented additionally for design 2).
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 14:23, Christoph Hellwig <[email protected]> wrote:
> === Notes on support for multiple devices for a single filesystem ===
>
> == Intro ==
>
> Btrfs (and an experimental XFS version) can support multiple underlying block
> devices for a single filesystem instances in a generalized and flexible way.
>
> Unlike the support for external log devices in ext3, jfs, reiserfs, XFS, and
> the special real-time device in XFS all data and metadata may be spread over a
> potentially large number of block devices, and not just one (or two)
>
>
> == Requirements ==
>
> We want a scheme to support these complex filesystem topologies in way
> that is
>
> a) easy to setup and non-fragile for the users
> b) scalable to a large number of disks in the system
> c) recoverable without requiring user space running first
> d) generic enough to work for multiple filesystems or other consumers
>
> Requirement a) means that a multiple-device filesystem should be mountable
> by a simple fstab entry (UUID/LABEL or some other cookie) which continues
> to work when the filesystem topology changes.
>
> Requirement b) implies we must not do a scan over all available block devices
> in large systems, but use an event-based callout on detection of new block
> devices.
>
> Requirement c) means there must be some version to add devices to a filesystem
> by kernel command lines, even if this is not the default way, and might require
> additional knowledge from the user / system administrator.
>
> Requirement d) means that we should not implement this mechanism inside a
> single filesystem.
>
>
> == Prior art ==
>
> * External log and realtime volume
>
> The most common way to specify the external log device and the XFS real time
> device is to have a mount option that contains the path to the block special
> device for it. This variant means a mount option is always required, and
> requires the device name doesn't change, which is enough with udev-generated
> unique device names (/dev/disk/by-{label,uuid}).
>
> An alternative way, supported by optionally by ext3 and reiserfs and
> exclusively supported by jfs is to open the journal device by the device
> number (dev_t) of the block special device. While this doesn't require
> an additional mount option when the device number is stored in the filesystem
> superblock it relies on the device number being stable which is getting
> increasingly unlikely in complex storage topologies.
>
>
> * RAID (MD) and LVM
>
> Software RAID and volume managers, although not strictly filesystems,
> have a similar very similar problem finding their devices. The traditional
> solution used for early versions of the Linux MD driver and LVM version 1
> was to hook into the partitions scanning code and add device with the
> right partition type to a kernel-internal list of potential RAID / LVM
> devices. This approach has the advantage of being simple to implement,
> fast, reliable and not requiring additional user space programs in the boot
> process. The downside is that it only works with specific partition table
> formats that allow specifying a partition type, and doesn't work with
> unpartitioned disks at all. Recent MD setups and LVM2 thus move the scanning
> to user space, typically using a command iterating over all block device
> nodes and performing the format-specific scanning. While this is more flexible
> than the in-kernel scanning, it scales very badly to a large number of
> block devices, and requires additional user space commands to run early
> in the boot process. A variant of this schemes runs a scanning callout
> from udev once disk device are detected, which avoids the scanning overhead.
>
>
> == High-level design considerations ==
>
> Due to requirement b) we need a layer that finds devices for a single
> fstab entry. We can either do this in user space, or in kernel space. As we've
> traditionally always done UUID/LABEL to device mapping in userspace, and we
> already have libvolume_id and libblkid dealing with the specialized case
> of UUID/LABEL to single device mapping I would recommend to keep doing
> this in user space and try to reuse the libvolume_id / libblkid.
>
> There are to options to perform the assembly of the device list for
> a filesystem:
>
> 1) whenever libvolume_id / libblkid find a device detected as a multi-device
> capable filesystem it gets added to a list of all devices of this
> particular filesystem type.
> On mount type mount(8) or a mount.fstype helpers calls out to the
> libraries to get a list of devices belonging to this filesystem
> type and translates them to device names, which can be passed to
> the kernel on the mount command line.
>
> Advantage: Requires a mount.fstype helper or fs-specific knowledge
> in mount(8).
> Disadvantages: Required libvolume_id / libblkid to keep state.
>
> 2) whenever libvolume_id / libblkid find a device detected as a multi-device
> capable filesystem they call into the kernel through and ioctl / sysfs /
> etc to add it to a list in kernel space. The kernel code then manages
> to select the right filesystem instances, and either adds it to an already
> running instance, or prepares a list for a future mount.
>
> Advantages: keeps state in the kernel instead of in libraries
> Disadvantages: requires and additional user interface to mount
>
> c) will be deal with an option that allows adding named block devices
> on the mount command line, which is already required for design 1) but
> would have to be implemented additionally for design 2).
Sounds all sensible. Btrfs already stores the (possibly incomplete)
device tree state in the kernel, which should make things pretty easy
for userspace, compared to other already existing subsystems.
We could have udev maintain a btrfs volume tree:
/dev/btrfs/
|-- 0cdedd75-2d03-41e6-a1eb-156c0920a021
| |-- 897fac06-569c-4f45-a0b9-a1f91a9564d4 -> ../../sda10
| `-- aac20975-b642-4650-b65b-b92ce22616f2 -> ../../sda9
`-- a1ec970a-2463-414e-864c-2eb8ac4e1cf2
|-- 4d1f1fff-4c6b-4b87-8486-36f58abc0610 -> ../../sdb2
`-- e7fe3065-c39f-4295-a099-a89e839ae350 -> ../../sdb1
At the same time, by-uuid/ is created:
/dev/disk/by-uuid/
|-- 0cdedd75-2d03-41e6-a1eb-156c0920a021 -> ../../sda10
|-- a1ec970a-2463-414e-864c-2eb8ac4e1cf2 -> ../../sdb2
...
And possibly by-label/:
/dev/disk/by-label/
|-- butter-butter -> ../../sda10
...
The by-uuid/, by-label/ links always get overwritten by the last
device claiming that name (unless udev rules specify a "link priority"
for specific devices, which might not make sense for btrfs).
With the udev rules that maintain the /dev/btrfs/ tree, we can just
plug in "btrfs -A" calls, to make the device known to the kernel.
If possible, "btrfsctrl -A" could return the updated state of the
in-kernel device tree. If it is complete, we can send out an event to
possibly trigger the mounting. This model should just work fine in
initramfs too.
For recue and recovery cases, it will still be nice to be able to
trigger "scan all devices" code in btrfsctrl (own code or libbklid),
but it should be avoided in any normal operation mode.
Thanks,
Kay
On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 08:23 -0500, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> FYI: here's a little writeup I did this summer on support for
> filesystems spanning multiple block devices:
>
>
Thanks Christoph, I'll start with a description of what btrfs does
today.
Every Btrfs filesystem has a uuid, and a tree that stores all the device
uuids that belong to the FS uuid.
Every btrfs device has a device uuid and a super block that indicates
which FS uuid it belongs to.
The btrfs kernel module holds a list of the FS uuids found and the
devices that belong to each one. This list is populated by a block
device scanning ioctl that opens a bdev and checks for btrfs supers.
I tried to keep this code as simple as possible because I knew we'd end
up replacing it. At mount time, btrfs makes sure the devices found by
scanning match the devices the FS expected to find.
btrfsctl -a scans all of /dev calling the scan ioctl on each device and
btrfsctl -A /dev/xxxx just calls the ioctl on a single device.
No scanning is required for a single device filesystem. After the scan
is done, sending any device in a multi-device filesystem is enough for
the kernel to mount the FS. IOW:
mkfs.btrfs /dev/sdb ; mount /dev/sdb /mnt just works.
mkfs.btrfs /dev/sdb /dev/sdc ; mount /dev/sdb /mnt also works
(mkfs.btrfs calls the ioctl on multi-device filesystems).
UUIDS and labels are important in large systems, but if the admin knows
a given device is part of an FS, they are going to expect to be able to
send that one device to mount and have things work.
Even though btrfs currently maintains the device list in the kernel, I'm
happy to move it into a userland api once we settle on one. Kay has
some code so that udev can discover the btrfs device<->FS uuid mappings,
resulting in a tree like this:
$ tree /dev/btrfs/
/dev/btrfs/
|-- 0cdedd75-2d03-41e6-a1eb-156c0920a021
| |-- 897fac06-569c-4f45-a0b9-a1f91a9564d4 -> ../../sda10
| `-- aac20975-b642-4650-b65b-b92ce22616f2 -> ../../sda9
`-- a1ec970a-2463-414e-864c-2eb8ac4e1cf2
|-- 4d1f1fff-4c6b-4b87-8486-36f58abc0610 -> ../../sdb2
`-- e7fe3065-c39f-4295-a099-a89e839ae350 -> ../../sdb1
It makes sense to me to use /dev/multi-device/ instead of /dev/btrfs/,
I'm fine with anything really.
-chris
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 03:50:45PM +0100, Kay Sievers wrote:
> Sounds all sensible. Btrfs already stores the (possibly incomplete)
> device tree state in the kernel, which should make things pretty easy
> for userspace, compared to other already existing subsystems.
>
> We could have udev maintain a btrfs volume tree:
> /dev/btrfs/
> |-- 0cdedd75-2d03-41e6-a1eb-156c0920a021
> | |-- 897fac06-569c-4f45-a0b9-a1f91a9564d4 -> ../../sda10
> | `-- aac20975-b642-4650-b65b-b92ce22616f2 -> ../../sda9
> `-- a1ec970a-2463-414e-864c-2eb8ac4e1cf2
> |-- 4d1f1fff-4c6b-4b87-8486-36f58abc0610 -> ../../sdb2
> `-- e7fe3065-c39f-4295-a099-a89e839ae350 -> ../../sdb1
>
> At the same time, by-uuid/ is created:
> /dev/disk/by-uuid/
> |-- 0cdedd75-2d03-41e6-a1eb-156c0920a021 -> ../../sda10
> |-- a1ec970a-2463-414e-864c-2eb8ac4e1cf2 -> ../../sdb2
> ...
Well, it's not just btrfs, it's also md, lvm and xfs. I think the right
way is to make the single node for the /dev/disk/by-uuid/ just a legacy
case for potential multiple devices. E.g. by having
/dev/disk/by-uuid/
0cdedd75-2d03-41e6-a1eb-156c0920a021 -> ../../sda10
0cdedd75-2d03-41e6-a1eb-156c0920a021.d
foo -> ../../sda10
bar -> ../../sda9
where foo nad bar could be uuids if the filesystem / volume manager
supports it, otherwise just the short name for it.
> For recue and recovery cases, it will still be nice to be able to
> trigger "scan all devices" code in btrfsctrl (own code or libbklid),
> but it should be avoided in any normal operation mode.
Again, that's something we should do generically for the whole
/dev/disk/ tree. For that we need to merge libvolume_id and libblkid
so that it has a few related but separate use cases:
- a lowlevel probe what fs / volume manager / etc is this for
the udev callout, mkfs, strip size detection etc
- a way to rescan everything, either for non-udev static /dev case
or your above recovery scenario
- plus potentially some sort of caching for the non-recovery static
/dev case
I've long planned to put you and Ted into a room and not let you out
until we see white smoke :)
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 16:08, Christoph Hellwig <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 03:50:45PM +0100, Kay Sievers wrote:
>> Sounds all sensible. Btrfs already stores the (possibly incomplete)
>> device tree state in the kernel, which should make things pretty easy
>> for userspace, compared to other already existing subsystems.
>>
>> We could have udev maintain a btrfs volume tree:
>> /dev/btrfs/
>> |-- 0cdedd75-2d03-41e6-a1eb-156c0920a021
>> | |-- 897fac06-569c-4f45-a0b9-a1f91a9564d4 -> ../../sda10
>> | `-- aac20975-b642-4650-b65b-b92ce22616f2 -> ../../sda9
>> `-- a1ec970a-2463-414e-864c-2eb8ac4e1cf2
>> |-- 4d1f1fff-4c6b-4b87-8486-36f58abc0610 -> ../../sdb2
>> `-- e7fe3065-c39f-4295-a099-a89e839ae350 -> ../../sdb1
>>
>> At the same time, by-uuid/ is created:
>> /dev/disk/by-uuid/
>> |-- 0cdedd75-2d03-41e6-a1eb-156c0920a021 -> ../../sda10
>> |-- a1ec970a-2463-414e-864c-2eb8ac4e1cf2 -> ../../sdb2
>> ...
>
> Well, it's not just btrfs, it's also md, lvm and xfs. I think the right
> way is to make the single node for the /dev/disk/by-uuid/ just a legacy
> case for potential multiple devices. E.g. by having
>
> /dev/disk/by-uuid/
> 0cdedd75-2d03-41e6-a1eb-156c0920a021 -> ../../sda10
> 0cdedd75-2d03-41e6-a1eb-156c0920a021.d
> foo -> ../../sda10
> bar -> ../../sda9
>
> where foo nad bar could be uuids if the filesystem / volume manager
> supports it, otherwise just the short name for it.
Sure, we can do something like that. /dev/btrfs/ was just something
for me to start with, and see how the stuff works.
>> For recue and recovery cases, it will still be nice to be able to
>> trigger "scan all devices" code in btrfsctrl (own code or libbklid),
>> but it should be avoided in any normal operation mode.
>
> Again, that's something we should do generically for the whole
> /dev/disk/ tree. For that we need to merge libvolume_id and libblkid
> so that it has a few related but separate use cases:
>
> - a lowlevel probe what fs / volume manager / etc is this for
> the udev callout, mkfs, strip size detection etc
A low-level api will be offered by a future libblkid version in util-linux-ng.
> - a way to rescan everything, either for non-udev static /dev case
> or your above recovery scenario
The scan code is part of libblkid, we just need some explicit controls
to enable disable the scanning. It should never be the default, like
it is today.
> - plus potentially some sort of caching for the non-recovery static
> /dev case
It's also in libblkid. Today it's pretty useless to cache stuff
indexed by major/minor, but it's there.
> I've long planned to put you and Ted into a room and not let you out
> until we see white smoke :)
A new libblkid already happened at:
http://git.kernel.org/?p=utils/util-linux-ng/util-linux-ng.git;a=shortlog;h=topic/blkid
Almost all of libvolume_id is already merged into this new version
(only btrfs is missing :)). Udev will switch over to calling blkid
when it's available in a released version of util-linux-ng. I will
just delete the current libvolume_id library after that.
No white smoke, if all works out as planned. :)
Thanks,
Kay
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 08:23:44 -0500
Christoph Hellwig <[email protected]> wrote:
> FYI: here's a little writeup I did this summer on support for
> filesystems spanning multiple block devices:
>
>
> --
>
> === Notes on support for multiple devices for a single filesystem ===
>
> == Intro ==
>
> Btrfs (and an experimental XFS version) can support multiple underlying block
> devices for a single filesystem instances in a generalized and flexible way.
>
> Unlike the support for external log devices in ext3, jfs, reiserfs, XFS, and
> the special real-time device in XFS all data and metadata may be spread over a
> potentially large number of block devices, and not just one (or two)
>
>
> == Requirements ==
>
> We want a scheme to support these complex filesystem topologies in way
> that is
>
> a) easy to setup and non-fragile for the users
> b) scalable to a large number of disks in the system
> c) recoverable without requiring user space running first
> d) generic enough to work for multiple filesystems or other consumers
>
> Requirement a) means that a multiple-device filesystem should be mountable
> by a simple fstab entry (UUID/LABEL or some other cookie) which continues
> to work when the filesystem topology changes.
"device topology"?
> Requirement b) implies we must not do a scan over all available block devices
> in large systems, but use an event-based callout on detection of new block
> devices.
>
> Requirement c) means there must be some version to add devices to a filesystem
> by kernel command lines, even if this is not the default way, and might require
> additional knowledge from the user / system administrator.
>
> Requirement d) means that we should not implement this mechanism inside a
> single filesystem.
>
One thing I've never seen comprehensively addressed is: why do this in
the filesystem at all? Why not let MD take care of all this and
present a single block device to the fs layer?
Lots of filesystems are violating this, and I'm sure the reasons for
this are good, but this document seems like a suitable place in which to
briefly decribe those reasons.
On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 11:53 -0800, Andrew Morton wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 08:23:44 -0500
> Christoph Hellwig <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > FYI: here's a little writeup I did this summer on support for
> > filesystems spanning multiple block devices:
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > === Notes on support for multiple devices for a single filesystem ===
> >
> > == Intro ==
> >
> > Btrfs (and an experimental XFS version) can support multiple underlying block
> > devices for a single filesystem instances in a generalized and flexible way.
> >
> > Unlike the support for external log devices in ext3, jfs, reiserfs, XFS, and
> > the special real-time device in XFS all data and metadata may be spread over a
> > potentially large number of block devices, and not just one (or two)
> >
> >
> > == Requirements ==
> >
> > We want a scheme to support these complex filesystem topologies in way
> > that is
> >
> > a) easy to setup and non-fragile for the users
> > b) scalable to a large number of disks in the system
> > c) recoverable without requiring user space running first
> > d) generic enough to work for multiple filesystems or other consumers
> >
> > Requirement a) means that a multiple-device filesystem should be mountable
> > by a simple fstab entry (UUID/LABEL or some other cookie) which continues
> > to work when the filesystem topology changes.
>
> "device topology"?
>
> > Requirement b) implies we must not do a scan over all available block devices
> > in large systems, but use an event-based callout on detection of new block
> > devices.
> >
> > Requirement c) means there must be some version to add devices to a filesystem
> > by kernel command lines, even if this is not the default way, and might require
> > additional knowledge from the user / system administrator.
> >
> > Requirement d) means that we should not implement this mechanism inside a
> > single filesystem.
> >
>
> One thing I've never seen comprehensively addressed is: why do this in
> the filesystem at all? Why not let MD take care of all this and
> present a single block device to the fs layer?
>
> Lots of filesystems are violating this, and I'm sure the reasons for
> this are good, but this document seems like a suitable place in which to
> briefly decribe those reasons.
I'd almost rather see this doc stick to the device topology interface in
hopes of describing something that RAID and MD can use too. But just to
toss some information into the pool:
* When moving data around (raid rebuild, restripe, pvmove etc), we want
to make sure the data read off the disk is correct before writing it to
the new location (checksum verification).
* When moving data around, we don't want to move data that isn't
actually used by the filesystem. This could be solved via new APIs, but
keeping it crash safe would be very tricky.
* When checksum verification fails on read, the FS should be able to ask
the raid implementation for another copy. This could be solved via new
APIs.
* Different parts of the filesystem might want different underlying raid
parameters. The easiest example is metadata vs data, where a 4k
stripesize for data might be a bad idea and a 64k stripesize for
metadata would result in many more rwm cycles.
* Sharing the filesystem transaction layer. LVM and MD have to pretend
they are a single consistent array of bytes all the time, for each and
every write they return as complete to the FS.
By pushing the multiple device support up into the filesystem, I can
share the filesystem's transaction layer. Work can be done in larger
atomic units, and the filesystem will stay consistent because it is all
coordinated.
There are other bits and pieces like high speed front end caching
devices that would be difficult in MD/LVM, but since I don't have that
coded yet I suppose they don't really count...
-chris
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 21:58, Chris Mason <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 11:53 -0800, Andrew Morton wrote:
>> One thing I've never seen comprehensively addressed is: why do this in
>> the filesystem at all? Why not let MD take care of all this and
>> present a single block device to the fs layer?
>>
>> Lots of filesystems are violating this, and I'm sure the reasons for
>> this are good, but this document seems like a suitable place in which to
>> briefly decribe those reasons.
>
> I'd almost rather see this doc stick to the device topology interface in
> hopes of describing something that RAID and MD can use too. But just to
> toss some information into the pool:
>
> * When moving data around (raid rebuild, restripe, pvmove etc), we want
> to make sure the data read off the disk is correct before writing it to
> the new location (checksum verification).
>
> * When moving data around, we don't want to move data that isn't
> actually used by the filesystem. This could be solved via new APIs, but
> keeping it crash safe would be very tricky.
>
> * When checksum verification fails on read, the FS should be able to ask
> the raid implementation for another copy. This could be solved via new
> APIs.
>
> * Different parts of the filesystem might want different underlying raid
> parameters. The easiest example is metadata vs data, where a 4k
> stripesize for data might be a bad idea and a 64k stripesize for
> metadata would result in many more rwm cycles.
>
> * Sharing the filesystem transaction layer. LVM and MD have to pretend
> they are a single consistent array of bytes all the time, for each and
> every write they return as complete to the FS.
>
> By pushing the multiple device support up into the filesystem, I can
> share the filesystem's transaction layer. Work can be done in larger
> atomic units, and the filesystem will stay consistent because it is all
> coordinated.
>
> There are other bits and pieces like high speed front end caching
> devices that would be difficult in MD/LVM, but since I don't have that
> coded yet I suppose they don't really count...
Features like the very nice and useful directory-based snapshots would
also not be possible with simple block-based multi-devices, right?
Kay
On Dec 17, 2008 15:58 -0500, Chris Mason wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 11:53 -0800, Andrew Morton wrote:
> > One thing I've never seen comprehensively addressed is: why do this in
> > the filesystem at all? Why not let MD take care of all this and
> > present a single block device to the fs layer?
> >
> > Lots of filesystems are violating this, and I'm sure the reasons for
> > this are good, but this document seems like a suitable place in which to
> > briefly decribe those reasons.
>
> I'd almost rather see this doc stick to the device topology interface in
> hopes of describing something that RAID and MD can use too. But just to
> toss some information into the pool:
Add in here (most important reason, IMHO) that the filesystem wants to make
sure that different copies of redundant metadata are stored on different
physical devices. It seems pointless to have 4 copies of important data if
a single disk failure makes them all inaccessible.
At the same time, not all data/metadata is of the same importance, so
it makes sense to store e.g. 4 full copies of important metadata like
the allocation bitmaps and the tree root block, but only RAID-5 for
file data. Even if MD was used to implement the RAID-1 and RAID-5 layer
in this case there would need to be multiple MD devices involved.
> * When moving data around (raid rebuild, restripe, pvmove etc), we want
> to make sure the data read off the disk is correct before writing it to
> the new location (checksum verification).
>
> * When moving data around, we don't want to move data that isn't
> actually used by the filesystem. This could be solved via new APIs, but
> keeping it crash safe would be very tricky.
>
> * When checksum verification fails on read, the FS should be able to ask
> the raid implementation for another copy. This could be solved via new
> APIs.
>
> * Different parts of the filesystem might want different underlying raid
> parameters. The easiest example is metadata vs data, where a 4k
> stripesize for data might be a bad idea and a 64k stripesize for
> metadata would result in many more rwm cycles.
Not just different underlying RAID parameters, but completely separate
physical storage characteristics. Having e.g. metadata stored on RAID-1
SSD flash (excellent for small random IO) while the data for large files
is stored on SATA RAID-5 would maximize performance while minimizing cost.
If there is a single virtual block device the filesystem can't make such
allocation decisions unless the virtual block device exposes grotty
details like "first 1MB of 128MB is really SSD" or "first 64GB is SSD,
rest is SATA" to the filesystem somehow, at which point you are just
shoehorning multiple devices into a bad interface (linear array of block
numbers) that has to be worked around.
> * Sharing the filesystem transaction layer. LVM and MD have to pretend
> they are a single consistent array of bytes all the time, for each and
> every write they return as complete to the FS.
>
> By pushing the multiple device support up into the filesystem, I can
> share the filesystem's transaction layer. Work can be done in larger
> atomic units, and the filesystem will stay consistent because it is all
> coordinated.
This is even true with filesystems other than btrfs. As it stands today
the MD RAID-1 code implements its own transaction mechanism for the
recovery bitmaps, and it would have been more efficient to hook this into
the JBD transaction code to avoid 2 layers of flush-then-wait_for_completion.
I can't speak for btrfs, but I don't think multiple device access from
the filesystem is a "layering violation" as some people comment. It is
just a different type of layering. With ZFS there is a distinct layer
that is handling the allocation, redundancy, and transactions (SPA, DMU)
that is exporting an object interface, and the filesystem (ZPL, or future
versions of Lustre) is built on top of that object interface.
Cheers, Andreas
--
Andreas Dilger
Sr. Staff Engineer, Lustre Group
Sun Microsystems of Canada, Inc.
On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 22:20 +0100, Kay Sievers wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 21:58, Chris Mason <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 11:53 -0800, Andrew Morton wrote:
> >
> > There are other bits and pieces like high speed front end caching
> > devices that would be difficult in MD/LVM, but since I don't have that
> > coded yet I suppose they don't really count...
>
> Features like the very nice and useful directory-based snapshots would
> also not be possible with simple block-based multi-devices, right?
At least for btrfs, the snapshotting is independent from the
multi-device code, and you still get snapshotting on single device
filesystems.
-chris
Kay Sievers wrote:
> Features like the very nice and useful directory-based snapshots would
> also not be possible with simple block-based multi-devices, right?
Snapshotting via block device has always been an incredibly dumb hack,
existing primarily because filesystem-based snapshots did not exist for
the filesystem in question.
Snapshots are better at the filesystem level because the filesystem is
the only entity that knows when the filesystem is quiescent and
snapshot-able.
ISTR we had to add ->write_super_lockfs() to hack in support for LVM in
this manner, rather than doing it the right way.
Jeff
Andreas Dilger wrote:
> I can't speak for btrfs, but I don't think multiple device access from
> the filesystem is a "layering violation" as some people comment. It is
> just a different type of layering. With ZFS there is a distinct layer
> that is handling the allocation, redundancy, and transactions (SPA, DMU)
> that is exporting an object interface, and the filesystem (ZPL, or future
> versions of Lustre) is built on top of that object interface.
Furthermore... think about object-based storage filesystems. They will
need to directly issue SCSI commands to storage devices. Call it a
layering violation if you will, but you simply cannot even pretend that
an OSD is a linear block device for the purposes of our existing block
layer.
Jeff
On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 14:24 -0700, Andreas Dilger wrote:
> I can't speak for btrfs, but I don't think multiple device access from
> the filesystem is a "layering violation" as some people comment. It
> is
> just a different type of layering. With ZFS there is a distinct layer
> that is handling the allocation, redundancy, and transactions (SPA,
> DMU)
> that is exporting an object interface, and the filesystem (ZPL, or
> future
> versions of Lustre) is built on top of that object interface.
Clean interfaces aren't really my best talent, but btrfs also layers
this out. logical->physical mappings happen in a centralized function,
and all of the on disk structures use logical block numbers.
The only exception to that rule is the superblock offsets on the device.
-chris
On Dec 17, 2008 08:23 -0500, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> == Prior art ==
>
> * External log and realtime volume
>
> The most common way to specify the external log device and the XFS real time
> device is to have a mount option that contains the path to the block special
> device for it. This variant means a mount option is always required, and
> requires the device name doesn't change, which is enough with udev-generated
> unique device names (/dev/disk/by-{label,uuid}).
>
> An alternative way, supported by optionally by ext3 and reiserfs and
> exclusively supported by jfs is to open the journal device by the device
> number (dev_t) of the block special device. While this doesn't require
> an additional mount option when the device number is stored in the filesystem
> superblock it relies on the device number being stable which is getting
> increasingly unlikely in complex storage topologies.
Just as an FYI here - the dev_t stored in the ext3/4 superblock for the
journal device is only a "cached" device. The journal is properly
identified by its UUID, and should the device mapping change there is a
"journal_dev=" option that can be used to specify the new device. The
one shortcoming is that there is no mount.ext3 helper which does this
journal UUID->dev mapping and automatically passes "journal_dev=" if
needed.
> * RAID (MD) and LVM
>
> Recent MD setups and LVM2 thus move the scanning to user space, typically
> using a command iterating over all block device nodes and performing the
> format-specific scanning. While this is more flexible
> than the in-kernel scanning, it scales very badly to a large number of
> block devices, and requires additional user space commands to run early
> in the boot process. A variant of this schemes runs a scanning callout
> from udev once disk device are detected, which avoids the scanning overhead.
My (admittedly somewhat vague) impression is that with large numbers of
devices the udev callout can itself be a huge overhead because this involves
a userspace fork/exec for each new device being added. For the same
number of devices, a single scan from userspace only requires a single
process, and an equal number of device probes.
Added to this is that the blkid cache can be used to eliminate the need
to do any scanning if the devices have not changed from the previous boot
makes it unclear which mechanism is more efficient. The drawback is that
the initrd device cache is never going to be up-to-date so it wouldn't
be useful until the root partition is mounted.
We've used blkid for our testing of Lustre-on-DMU with up to 48 (local)
disks w/o any kind of performance issues. We'll eventually be able to
test on systems with around 400 disks in a JBOD configuration, but until
then we only run on systems with hundreds of disks behind a RAID controller.
> == High-level design considerations ==
>
> Due to requirement b) we need a layer that finds devices for a single
> fstab entry. We can either do this in user space, or in kernel space.
> As we've traditionally always done UUID/LABEL to device mapping in
> userspace, and we already have libvolume_id and libblkid dealing with
> the specialized case of UUID/LABEL to single device mapping I would
> recommend to keep doing this in user space and reuse libvolume_id/libblkid.
>
> There are to options to perform the assembly of the device list for
> a filesystem:
>
> 1) whenever libvolume_id / libblkid find a device detected as a multi-device
> capable filesystem it gets added to a list of all devices of this
> particular filesystem type.
> On mount type mount(8) or a mount.fstype helpers calls out to the
> libraries to get a list of devices belonging to this filesystem
> type and translates them to device names, which can be passed to
> the kernel on the mount command line.
I would actually suggest that instead of keeping devices in groups by
the filesystem type, rather keep a list of devices with the same UUID
and/or LABEL, and if the mount is looking for this UUID/LABEL it gets
the whole list of matching devices back.
This could also be done in the kernel by having the filesystems register
a "probe" function that examines the device/partitions as they are added,
similar to the way that MD used to do it. There would likely be very few
probe functions needed, only ext3/4 (for journal devices), btrfs, and
maybe MD, LVM2 and a handful more.
If we wanted to avoid code duplication, this could share code between
libblkid and the kernel (just the enhanced probe-only functions in the
util-linux-ng implementation) since these functions are little more than
"take a pointer, cast it to struct X, check some magic fields and return
match + {LABEL, UUID}, or no-match".
That MD used to check only the partition type doesn't mean that we can't
have simple functions that read the superblock (or equivalent) to make
an internal list of suitable devices attached to a filesystem-type global
structure (possibly split into per-fsUUID sublists if it wants). When
filesystem X is mounted (using any one device from the filesystem passed
to mount) it can quickly scan this list to find all devices that for that
filesystem's UUID to assemble all of the required devices.
Since the filesystem would internally have to verify the list of devices
that would (somehow) be passed to the kernel during mount this doesn't
really gain much to keep the list in userspace.
> Advantage: Requires a mount.fstype helper or fs-specific knowledge
> in mount(8).
> Disadvantages: Required libvolume_id / libblkid to keep state.
>
> 2) whenever libvolume_id / libblkid find a device detected as a multi-device
> capable filesystem they call into the kernel through and ioctl / sysfs /
> etc to add it to a list in kernel space. The kernel code then manages
> to select the right filesystem instances, and either adds it to an already
> running instance, or prepares a list for a future mount.
While not performance critical, this seems that calling into userspace
just to call back down into the kernel is more complex than it needs to
be (i.e. prone to failure).
I'm not stuck on doing this in the kernel, just thinking that the more
components involved the more likely it is that something goes wrong. I
have enough grief with just initrd not having the right kernel module,
I'd hate to depend on tools to do the device assembly for the root fs.
> Advantages: keeps state in the kernel instead of in libraries
> Disadvantages: requires and additional user interface to mount
>
> c) will be deal with an option that allows adding named block devices
> on the mount command line, which is already required for design 1) but
> would have to be implemented additionally for design 2).
Cheers, Andreas
--
Andreas Dilger
Sr. Staff Engineer, Lustre Group
Sun Microsystems of Canada, Inc.
On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 15:04 -0700, Andreas Dilger wrote:
> On Dec 17, 2008 08:23 -0500, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> > An alternative way, supported by optionally by ext3 and reiserfs and
> > exclusively supported by jfs is to open the journal device by the device
> > number (dev_t) of the block special device. While this doesn't require
> > an additional mount option when the device number is stored in the filesystem
> > superblock it relies on the device number being stable which is getting
> > increasingly unlikely in complex storage topologies.
>
> Just as an FYI here - the dev_t stored in the ext3/4 superblock for the
> journal device is only a "cached" device. The journal is properly
> identified by its UUID, and should the device mapping change there is a
> "journal_dev=" option that can be used to specify the new device. The
> one shortcoming is that there is no mount.ext3 helper which does this
> journal UUID->dev mapping and automatically passes "journal_dev=" if
> needed.
An additional FYI. JFS also treats the dev_t in its superblock the same
way. Since jfs relies on jfs_fsck running at boot time to ensure that
the journal is replayed, jfs_fsck makes sure that the dev_t is accurate.
If not, then it scans all of the block devices until it finds the uuid
of the journal device, updating the superblock so that the kernel will
find the journal.
Shaggy
--
David Kleikamp
IBM Linux Technology Center
>> Features like the very nice and useful directory-based snapshots would
>> also not be possible with simple block-based multi-devices, right?
>Snapshotting via block device has always been an incredibly dumb hack,
>existing primarily because filesystem-based snapshots did not exist for
>the filesystem in question.
I can see that if the filesystem driver in question could already do
snapshots, nobody would have added snapshot function to the block device
driver under it, but this doesn't explain why someone at some time created
block device snapshot instead of creating it for the filesystem in
question.
>Snapshots are better at the filesystem level because the filesystem is
>the only entity that knows when the filesystem is quiescent and
>snapshot-able.
You can use the same logic to say that snapshots are better at the
application level because only the application knows when its database is
quiescent and snapshot-able. In fact, carrying it to the extreme, you
could say snapshots are better done manually by the human end user with
none of the computer knowing anything about it.
It probably minimizes engineering effort to have snapshot capability at
every level, with the implementation at each level exploiting the function
at the level below. E.g. when someone tells a filesystem driver to
snapshot a filesystem that resides on two block devices, the filesystem
driver quiesces the filesystem, then snapshots each device (implemented in
the block device driver), then resumes. The new snapshot filesystem lives
on the two new snapshot block devices.
Of course, if you want to do a form of snapshot that makes sense only in
the context of a filesystem, like the directory snapshot mentioned above,
then you can't get as much help from snapshot functions in the storage
devices.
--
Bryan Henderson IBM Almaden Research Center
San Jose CA Storage Systems