Linux booting from USB HD
I've been doing some research in this area. There are a few
motherboards that I've come across that are capable of booting from a
USB hard drive and I'm interested in collecting a lot of opinions and
"yeah, i've done that" comments. The end application for this is to
mount a motherboard in a 4x4 truck to process dash data and sensory
input (i.e. GPS, atmospheric, fire department data, etc), provide
digitized maps (GIS), network connectivity via wireless, and be the
radio/mp3/cd player etc.
The most promising vendor I've found so far is Gigabyte, one of the
better motherboards appears to be the GA-8IGX model.
_Please note_, I'm specifically trying to use a USB harddrive, not a
floppy. I want the smallest number of devices required to run the
system and floppy media is just too unreliable. I'm also intending on
putting the harddrive several feet away from the motherboard -- the
system's physical profile has to be flexible.
1) Most motherboard vendors (that mention Linux) are indicating Linux
2.4.x for support. How is the USB Mass storage support in 2.4.19+?
2) There are some vague comments about some devices requiring the
ability to boot, are there some USB hard drives that are incapable of
acting as a boot device?
3) I don't suspect there is anything tricky or nonstandard that I'd need
to do on the USB drive, do I need corrected?
4) What kind of USB hard drives are well supported in Linux?
5) What kernel issues do I need to be aware of?
USB Interface devices
As part of the above project, I'd like to build a digital dash, full
bidirection data flow. Sensor data into computer, control data out.
I.e. read fuel, oil, speed, engine computer data, etc as sensory inputs
and for output send data to control regular lighting, special lighting,
fans, etc. I'm really lacking in research results here, -any- feedback
for this would be appreciated.
Comments or answers appreciated. I promise to put up a web page with
all the gadget details as I go along.
David
--
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On Sat, Jul 27, 2002 at 02:15:15PM -0400, David Ford wrote:
> Linux booting from USB HD
>
> 1) Most motherboard vendors (that mention Linux) are indicating Linux
> 2.4.x for support. How is the USB Mass storage support in 2.4.19+?
It works nicely for many people.
> 2) There are some vague comments about some devices requiring the
> ability to boot, are there some USB hard drives that are incapable of
> acting as a boot device?
Yes. They are few, tho. The USB-IF is currently working on a bootability
standard to eliminate this problem.
> 3) I don't suspect there is anything tricky or nonstandard that I'd need
> to do on the USB drive, do I need corrected?
No correction.
> 4) What kind of USB hard drives are well supported in Linux?
See http://www.linux-usb.org for a link to a list of good devices.
> 5) What kernel issues do I need to be aware of?
THe stock kernel won't work. There are patches floating around to make
this work. Basically, the kernel needs to pause for a couple of seconds
before attempting to mount the root fs so that the plug-n-pray detection
can work, identify the drive, and get going.
Matt
--
Matthew Dharm Home: [email protected]
Maintainer, Linux USB Mass Storage Driver
Okay, this isn't funny anymore! Let me down! I'll tell Bill on you!!
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Thank you for your reply. I've started a rough draft of this project,
http://blue-labs.org/ranger.php
Matthew Dharm wrote:
>>2) There are some vague comments about some devices requiring the
>>ability to boot, are there some USB hard drives that are incapable of
>>acting as a boot device?
>>
>>
>
>Yes. They are few, tho. The USB-IF is currently working on a bootability
>standard to eliminate this problem.
>
Is there a list of these somewhere that point out components that I
should avoid?
>
>THe stock kernel won't work. There are patches floating around to make
>this work. Basically, the kernel needs to pause for a couple of seconds
>before attempting to mount the root fs so that the plug-n-pray detection
>can work, identify the drive, and get going.
>
I'll go look for these patches, pointers are welcome of course.
David
--
I may have the information you need and I may choose only HTML. It's up to
you. Disclaimer: I am not responsible for any email that you send me nor am
I bound to any obligation to deal with any received email in any given
fashion. If you send me spam or a virus, I may in whole or part send you
50,000 return copies of it. I may also publically announce any and all
emails and post them to message boards, news sites, and even parody sites.
I may also mark them up, cut and paste, print, and staple them to telephone
poles for the enjoyment of people without internet access. This is not a
confidential medium and your assumption that your email can or will be
handled confidentially is akin to baring your backside, burying your head in
the ground, and thinking nobody can see you butt nekkid and in plain view
for miles away. Don't be a cluebert, buy one from K-mart today.
On Sun, Jul 28, 2002 at 11:40:01AM -0400, David Ford wrote:
> Thank you for your reply. I've started a rough draft of this project,
> http://blue-labs.org/ranger.php
>
> Matthew Dharm wrote:
>
> >>2) There are some vague comments about some devices requiring the
> >>ability to boot, are there some USB hard drives that are incapable of
> >>acting as a boot device?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Yes. They are few, tho. The USB-IF is currently working on a bootability
> >standard to eliminate this problem.
> >
>
> Is there a list of these somewhere that point out components that I
> should avoid?
Not to my knowledge. USB bootability is a very touch-and-go thing for the
BIOS vendors right now... hopefully the specification being worked on now
will help.
> >THe stock kernel won't work. There are patches floating around to make
> >this work. Basically, the kernel needs to pause for a couple of seconds
> >before attempting to mount the root fs so that the plug-n-pray detection
> >can work, identify the drive, and get going.
> >
>
> I'll go look for these patches, pointers are welcome of course.
Sorry, no pointers. See if you can find a linux-usb-devel or
linux-usb-users archive. You're searching for something that introduces a
"delay" (good keyword) in the boot process.
Matt
--
Matthew Dharm Home: [email protected]
Maintainer, Linux USB Mass Storage Driver
Sir, for the hundreth time, we do NOT carry 600-round boxes of belt-fed
suction darts!
-- Salesperson to Greg
User Friendly, 12/30/1997
On Saturday 27 July 2002 20.15, David Ford wrote:
> Linux booting from USB HD
>
> I've been doing some research in this area. There are a few
> motherboards that I've come across that are capable of booting from a
> USB hard drive and I'm interested in collecting a lot of opinions and
> "yeah, i've done that" comments. The end application for this is to
> mount a motherboard in a 4x4 truck to process dash data and sensory
> input (i.e. GPS, atmospheric, fire department data, etc), provide
> digitized maps (GIS), network connectivity via wireless, and be the
> radio/mp3/cd player etc.
Maybe you are asking for the wrong thing here...
What you want is probably an "flash based persistent storage that can be
booted from" not specifically USB - correct?
If that is the case - you do not want to use USB memory but rather
CompactFlash - since they are both compatible with PCMCIA _and_ IDE.
You only need a ribbon cable and a small adapter (the adapter is really
simple)!
A quick search on google for "CompactFlash IDE" or "Compact flash IDE" will
give you several hits.
Since they are compatible with IDE you can use any MB including
most PC/104 variant - many of those can also be booted from DiskOnChip...
>
> The most promising vendor I've found so far is Gigabyte, one of the
> better motherboards appears to be the GA-8IGX model.
>
> _Please note_, I'm specifically trying to use a USB harddrive, not a
> floppy. I want the smallest number of devices required to run the
> system and floppy media is just too unreliable. I'm also intending on
> putting the harddrive several feet away from the motherboard -- the
> system's physical profile has to be flexible.
An compact flash IDE is VERY small... If you can not fit it in the case you
have other problems...
/RogerL
--
Roger Larsson
Skellefte?
Sweden
On Sun, 28 Jul 2002, Matthew Dharm wrote:
| On Sun, Jul 28, 2002 at 11:40:01AM -0400, David Ford wrote:
| > Thank you for your reply. I've started a rough draft of this project,
| > http://blue-labs.org/ranger.php
Not much progress so far?
[snip]
| > >THe stock kernel won't work. There are patches floating around to make
| > >this work. Basically, the kernel needs to pause for a couple of seconds
| > >before attempting to mount the root fs so that the plug-n-pray detection
| > >can work, identify the drive, and get going.
| > >
| >
| > I'll go look for these patches, pointers are welcome of course.
|
| Sorry, no pointers. See if you can find a linux-usb-devel or
| linux-usb-users archive. You're searching for something that introduces a
| "delay" (good keyword) in the boot process.
There have been 2 such patches that I know of.
a. One is from Eric Lammerts (subj: Using USB floppy drive for root floppy)
on Dec. 23, 2001 (on the linux-kernel mailing list).
<http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=linux-kernel&m=100912381726661&w=2>
b. 2001-10-26: Booting a USB disk:
<http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=linux-usb-users&m=100408963708374&w=2>
Neither of these patches will apply cleanly to 2.4.1[89].
I am working with 'a.'.
It now applies and builds cleanly, so I'm trying to test it.
My turn for a question:
What files do I need to copy to a USB boot disk to be able to
successfully boot a Linux kenrel?
I'm already building the kernel with usb-storage support and all of
the required SCSI support in the kernel.
Won't I need to put the kernel as the primary boot image,
i.e., don't use a boot loader on the USB storage device,
since the boot loader won't have USB storage I/O capabilities?
Does anyone know of a HOWTO for this?
I'm currently trying to use the zip-install and/or install-from-zip
mini-howtos.
--
~Randy
On Fri, Aug 02, 2002 at 02:03:02PM -0700, Randy.Dunlap wrote:
> My turn for a question:
> What files do I need to copy to a USB boot disk to be able to
> successfully boot a Linux kenrel?
> I'm already building the kernel with usb-storage support and all of
> the required SCSI support in the kernel.
You should have a full linux install on that disk. It is, after all, going
to be the root fs.
> Won't I need to put the kernel as the primary boot image,
> i.e., don't use a boot loader on the USB storage device,
> since the boot loader won't have USB storage I/O capabilities?
Depends on your motherboard. Some BIOSes allow loaders like LILO to work
because they provide the translation between the int13h calls and the USB
stack.
Matt
--
Matthew Dharm Home: [email protected]
Maintainer, Linux USB Mass Storage Driver
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User Friendly, 11/24/97