2003-05-31 16:31:43

by Margit Schubert-While

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Subject: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

Errr, guys - you do know that PS2 is NOT hotplug and you
may well end up hosing your mainboard ?

Margit


2003-05-31 16:46:14

by Alan

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Subject: Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

On Sad, 2003-05-31 at 17:44, Margit Schubert-While wrote:
> Errr, guys - you do know that PS2 is NOT hotplug and you
> may well end up hosing your mainboard ?

For any vaguely modern machine you'll find thats not the case. If
I remember rightly the requirement for PS/2 to be hotplug safe was
added into the PC specs the vendors use about 1998

2003-05-31 16:55:57

by MånsRullgård

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Subject: Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

Alan Cox <[email protected]> writes:

> > Errr, guys - you do know that PS2 is NOT hotplug and you
> > may well end up hosing your mainboard ?
>
> For any vaguely modern machine you'll find thats not the case. If
> I remember rightly the requirement for PS/2 to be hotplug safe was
> added into the PC specs the vendors use about 1998

I've never seen any ill effects of hotplugging PS/2 on older gear
either. XFree86 used to dislike it, though.

--
M?ns Rullg?rd
[email protected]

2003-05-31 23:14:11

by Christian Kujau

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Subject: Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

Margit Schubert-While schrieb:

>> Errr, guys - you do know that PS2 is NOT hotplug and you
>> may well end up hosing your mainboard ?


hm, i guessed this was an important thing "in the old days" (TM),
i never had problems when "hotplugging" ps/2. nevertheless - i _have_ to
unplug/replug the ps/2 keyboard to actually _use_ it. after this is done
the keyboard is working right (and the mainboard, too :-))

thank you all for your comments; i only wished
- someone else has these problems too

- one could tell what to try to get error messages or so (usb debugging
and input debugging is available!)

- is it fixable at all? with 2.4.20-rc2 this was is not happening...


Thanks again,
Christian.


2003-05-31 23:42:24

by MånsRullgård

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Subject: Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

Christian Kujau <[email protected]> writes:

> hm, i guessed this was an important thing "in the old days" (TM),
> i never had problems when "hotplugging" ps/2. nevertheless - i _have_ to
> unplug/replug the ps/2 keyboard to actually _use_ it. after this is done
> the keyboard is working right (and the mainboard, too :-))
>
> thank you all for your comments; i only wished
> - someone else has these problems too

Why do you wish your bad luck on others? Well, I've seen it, too, but
it wasn't very bad for me. I had only one burst every ~100 keystrokes
or so. I'm not using 2.5 kernels right now, because of bad IDE disk
performance.

> - one could tell what to try to get error messages or so (usb debugging
> and input debugging is available!)
>
> - is it fixable at all? with 2.4.20-rc2 this was is not happening...

It was breakable, so it had better be fixable.

--
M?ns Rullg?rd
[email protected]

2003-06-01 12:15:53

by Konstantin Kletschke

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Subject: Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

* Christian Kujau <[email protected]> [Sun, Jun 01, 2003 at 01:27:30AM +0200]:
>
> hm, i guessed this was an important thing "in the old days" (TM),
> i never had problems when "hotplugging" ps/2. nevertheless - i _have_ to
> unplug/replug the ps/2 keyboard to actually _use_ it. after this is done
> the keyboard is working right (and the mainboard, too :-))

Today I realize it more signifikant here. Sometimes a pressed key hangs,
the kernel realizes not, that it was a single click. Then the Key is
repeyted until I press it once again.

Christian, do you get this error only in X or at console too?

Furthermore my ps2 kbd is usable without hotplugging it, though.

The strange thing happens very often using ssh.

In earlyer days I had a similair Problem with an SiS chipset board
@work and 2.4.x ac kernels, there only an usb keyboard is usable.
This happens only happens running X and IIRC this was/is an xfree86 bug
there.

But here @home I get this error for the 1st time with this otherwise
master piece of software being 2.5.70-mm3 :) on an i845PE chipset.

I discovered this only running X 'cause I did not do much console work
with this kernel, since it is so young :)

regards,
Konstantin

--
2.5.70-mm3
Konstantin Kletschke <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>
GPG KeyID EF62FCEF
Fingerprint: 13C9 B16B 9844 EC15 CC2E A080 1E69 3FDA EF62 FCEF
keulator.homelinux.org up 1:43, 19 users

2003-06-01 13:40:35

by Christian Kujau

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

Konstantin Kletschke schrieb:
> * Christian Kujau <[email protected]> [Sun, Jun 01, 2003 at 01:27:30AM +0200]:
>
>>hm, i guessed this was an important thing "in the old days" (TM),
>>i never had problems when "hotplugging" ps/2. nevertheless - i _have_ to
>>unplug/replug the ps/2 keyboard to actually _use_ it. after this is done
>>the keyboard is working right (and the mainboard, too :-))
>
> Today I realize it more signifikant here. Sometimes a pressed key hangs,
> the kernel realizes not, that it was a single click. Then the Key is
> repeyted until I press it once again.

no, here it's more than "a single klick will write 5-10 chars". it is
_not_ repeated to the infinite. and no, both kbds are OK (2.4.20-rc3 works)

> Christian, do you get this error only in X or at console too?

on X and console.

>
> Furthermore my ps2 kbd is usable without hotplugging it, though.
>
> The strange thing happens very often using ssh.

no, i don't think it's appliation related. to actuallay _use_ my system
i have to login. and to do that, i will write my username / password.
and to do that, i have to unplug/replug my keyboard.

since i have other module issues right now i'm on 2.4.20rc3 again. what
i have done yesterday in the evening was this:
- i compiled 2.5.70 again, input/usb support statically include but with
a modular CONFIG_USB_KBD (usbkbd) and a modular CONFIG_KEYBOARD_ATKBD
(atkbd). then i rebooted, logged in via remote console where i was able
to load "atkbd" and "usbkbd". then both kbds were up *in a sane way* !!

so this would be the workaround for me.
i wonder when the problem will diesappear as it did on linux/alpha :-)

Thanks for comments,
Christian.


2003-06-01 13:47:26

by Christian Kujau

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Subject: Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

M?ns Rullg?rd schrieb:
>>thank you all for your comments; i only wished
>>- someone else has these problems too
>
> Why do you wish your bad luck on others?

no, no, this is not what i wanted to say. but i couldn't image why this
problem does not show up on other ppl's computers too. if more ppl
complain - the keyboard guys might take a look at it. sorry for being
unclear.

>
> It was breakable, so it had better be fixable.
>

i guess the worst thing is: ther is no error message. if i only had an
error message one would know where to look at. but i only have these
weird behaviour. i could post usb-debug messages, if it only would help.

i already got a workaround for me, see my other post.

Thank you,
Christian.

2003-06-01 14:44:33

by xombi

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

On 31 May 2003, Alan Cox wrote:
> On Sad, 2003-05-31 at 17:44, Margit Schubert-While wrote:
> > Errr, guys - you do know that PS2 is NOT hotplug and you
> > may well end up hosing your mainboard ?
>
> For any vaguely modern machine you'll find thats not the case. If
> I remember rightly the requirement for PS/2 to be hotplug safe was
> added into the PC specs the vendors use about 1998

I have a Abit-KT7 (Socket A, wo/RAID) motherboard that dies if you unplug
the keyboard, but not the mouse. IIRC that's a mid-to late 2000
motherboard.

--
\ \/ / _ |~\ _ In God We Trust. All Others Pay Cash.
> < / \|\ /|+-< | | "The world is a comedy to those that think,
/ /\ \\_/| \/ ||__)|_| a tragedy to those who feel." - Horace Walpole

2003-06-01 16:49:44

by MånsRullgård

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Subject: Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

Christian Kujau <[email protected]> writes:

> i wonder when the problem will diesappear as it did on linux/alpha :-)

So it's ok on Alpha now? That's where I saw it. Strangely, though,
only on one of my machines. I guess I'll give 2.5.70 a try some day,
but the ALSA problems have been keeping me away from it.

--
M?ns Rullg?rd
[email protected]

2003-06-01 17:36:08

by Ian Stirling

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

>
> On 31 May 2003, Alan Cox wrote:
> > On Sad, 2003-05-31 at 17:44, Margit Schubert-While wrote:
> > > Errr, guys - you do know that PS2 is NOT hotplug and you
> > > may well end up hosing your mainboard ?
> >
> > For any vaguely modern machine you'll find thats not the case. If
> > I remember rightly the requirement for PS/2 to be hotplug safe was
> > added into the PC specs the vendors use about 1998
>
> I have a Abit-KT7 (Socket A, wo/RAID) motherboard that dies if you unplug
> the keyboard, but not the mouse. IIRC that's a mid-to late 2000
> motherboard.

I have a 2001 model Socket A motherboard that will reboot after several
seconds about once every hundred keyboard plugs.

It usually works...

2003-06-02 08:10:40

by Konstantin Kletschke

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

Good Morning :)

I tried it out here at work on an
00:00.0 Host bridge: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] 730 Host (rev 02)

I plugged out the usb keyboard (here I have one), put the usb to ps2
adapter on it and used it as an ps2 keyboard (yes, I hotplugged again).
after a couple of minutes the ENTER key "hung" and stopped repeating
after hitting it again.

Here with this mainboard I experienced this behaviour with 2.4.x kernel
series before, though.

At home on i845PE 2.5.70-mm3 triggers this behaviour.
May a XFree86 Bug is triggered? IIRC there was something discovered
which is not fixed yet, I am searching this thing ATM...

Konsti

--
2.5.69-mm7
Konstantin Kletschke <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>
GPG KeyID EF62FCEF
Fingerprint: 13C9 B16B 9844 EC15 CC2E A080 1E69 3FDA EF62 FCEF
keulator.homelinux.org up 46 min, 1

2003-06-02 19:11:23

by Konstantin Kletschke

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Subject: Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

I don't know if that helps finding the error in any way.

Jun 2 19:51:09 [kernel] atkbd.c: Unknown key (set 2, scancode 0x1c8, on
isa0060/serio0) pressed.
Jun 2 19:51:13 [kernel] atkbd.c: Unknown key (set 2, scancode 0x1c8, on
isa0060/serio0) pressed.

I use an old school IBM PC102 keyboard, there are definitely no modern
unknown keys on it :)

Konsti

--
2.5.70-mm3
Konstantin Kletschke <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>
GPG KeyID EF62FCEF
Fingerprint: 13C9 B16B 9844 EC15 CC2E A080 1E69 3FDA EF62 FCEF
keulator.homelinux.org up 2:54, 23 users

2003-06-02 20:07:40

by Christian Kujau

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Subject: Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

thank you all for your replies, but i'll give up on this.
i still don't have a useable error-message, so i hope that this
weirdness will disapear, just as on linux/alpha.

i noticed that i do not reboot the very workstation that often, so
unpluggin/replugging the kbds a few times a week is ok for now 8-)

thank you,
Christian.