Here's an updated version of the "HOTO do Linux kernel development"
document that I've been working on.
For a description of why I started this, please see:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/348689
I've addressed all of the comments that I have received, and flushed out
the the TODO sections. I'd appreciate any comments on this version, as
I think it's looking pretty good and finished for now. If no one
objects, I'll send it in a patch for inclusion in the main tree soon.
thanks,
greg k-h
------------------------------
HOWTO do Linux kernel development
---------------------------------
This is the be-all, end-all document on this topic. It contains
instructions on how to become a Linux kernel developer and how to learn
to work with the Linux kernel development community.
If anything in this document becomes out of date, please send in patches
to the maintainer of this file, who is listed at the bottom of the
document.
Introduction
------------
So, you want to learn how to become a Linux kernel developer? Or you
have been told by your manager, "Go write a Linux driver for this
device." This document's goal is to teach you everything you need to
know to achieve this by describing the process you need to go through,
and hints on how to work with the community. It will also try to
explain some of the reasons why the community works like it does.
The kernel is written mostly in C, with some architecture-dependent
parts written in assembly. A good understanding of C is required for
kernel development. Assembly (any architecture) is not required unless
you plan to do low-level development for that architecture. Though they
are not a good substitute for a solid C education and/or years of
experience, the following books are good for, if anything, reference:
- "The C Programming Language" by Kernighan and Ritchie [Prentice Hall]
- "Practical C Programming" by Steve Oualline [O'Reilly]
- "Programming the 80386" by Crawford and Gelsinger [Sybek]
- "UNIX Systems for Modern Architectures" by Curt Schimmel [Addison Wesley]
The kernel is written using GNU C and the GNU toolchain. While it
adheres to the ISO C89 standard, it uses a number of extensions that are
not featured in the standard. The kernel is a freestanding C
environment, with no reliance on the standard C library, so some
portions of the C standard are not supported. Arbitrary long long
divisions and floating point are not allowed. It can sometimes be
difficult to understand the assumptions the kernel has on the toolchain
and the extensions that it uses, and unfortunately there is no
definitive reference for them. Please check the gcc info pages (`info
gcc`) for some information on them.
Please remember that you are trying to learn how to work with the
existing development community. It is a very diverse group of people,
with very high standards for coding, style and procedure. These
standards have been created over time based on what they have found to
work best for such a large and geographically dispersed team. Try to
learn as much as possible about these standards ahead of time, as they
are well documented; do not expect people to adapt to you or your
company's way of doing things.
Legal Issues
------------
The Linux kernel source code is released under the GPL. Please see the
file, COPYING, in the main directory of the source tree, for details on
the license. If you have further questions about the license, please
contact a lawyer, and do not ask on the Linux kernel mailing list. The
people on the mailing lists are not lawyers, and you should not rely on
their statements on legal matters.
Documentation
------------
The Linux kernel source tree has a large range of documents that are
invaluable for learning how to interact with the kernel community. When
new features are added to the kernel, it is recommended that new
documentation files are also added which explain how to use the feature.
Here is a list of files that are in the kernel source tree that are
required reading:
Documentation/CodingStyle
This describes the Linux kernel coding style, and some of the
rationale behind it. All new code is expected to follow the
guidelines in this document. Most maintainers will only accept
patches if these rules are followed, and many people will only
review code if it is in the proper style.
Documentation/SubmittingPatches
Documentation/SubmittingDrivers
These files describe in explicit detail how to successfully create
and send a patch, including (but not limited to):
- Email contents
- Email format
- Who to send it to
Following these rules will not guarantee success (as all patches are
subject to scrutiny for content and style), but not following them
will almost always prevent it.
Other excellent descriptions of how to create patches properly are:
"The Perfect Patch"
http://www.zip.com.au/~akpm/linux/patches/stuff/tpp.txt
"Linux kernel patch submission format"
http://linux.yyz.us/patch-format.html
Documentation/stable_api_nonsense.txt
This file describes the rationale behind the conscious decision to
not have a stable API within the kernel, including for things like:
- Subsystem shim-layers (for compatibility?)
- Driver portability between Operating Systems.
- Mitigating rapid change within the kernel source tree (or
preventing rapid change)
This document is crucial for understand the Linux development
philosophy and is very important for people moving to Linux from
development on other Operating Systems.
Documentation/SecurityBugs
If you feel you have found a security problem in the Linux kernel,
please follow the steps in this document to help notify the kernel
developers, and help solve the issue.
Documentation/ManagementStyle
This document describes how Linux kernel maintainers operate and the
shared ethos behind their methodologies. This is important reading
for anyone new to kernel development (or anyone simply curious about
it), as it resolves a lot of common misconceptions and confusion
about the unique behavior of kernel maintainers.
Documentation/stable_kernel_rules.txt
This file describes the rules on how the stable kernel releases
happen, and what to do if you want to get a change into one of these
releases.
Documentation/kernel-docs.txt
A list of external documentation that pertains to kernel
development. Please consult this list if you do not find what you
are looking for within the in-kernel documentation.
Documentation/applying-patches.txt
A good introduction describing exactly what a patch is, how to
create it, and how to apply it to the different development branches
of the kernel.
The kernel also has a large number of documents that can be
automatically generated from the source code itself. This includes a
full description of the in-kernel API, and rules on how to handle
locking properly. The documents will be created in the
Documentation/DocBook/ directory and can be generated as PDF,
Postscript, HTML, and man pages by running:
make pdfdocs
make psdocs
make htmldocs
make mandocs
respectively from the main kernel source directory.
Becoming A Kernel Developer
---------------------------
If you do not know anything about Linux kernel development, you should
look at the Linux KernelNewbies project:
http://kernelnewbies.org
It consists of a helpful mailing list where you can ask almost any type
of basic kernel development question (make sure to search the archives
first, before asking something that has already been answered in the
past.) It also has a IRC channel that you can use to ask questions in
real-time, and a lot of helpful documentation that is useful for
learning about Linux kernel development.
The website has basic information about code organization, subsystems,
and current projects (both in-tree and out-of-tree). It also describes
some basic logistical information, like how to compile a kernel and
apply a patch.
If you do not know where you want to start, but you want to look for
some task to start doing to join into the kernel development community,
go to the Linux Kernel Janitor's project:
http://janitor.kernelnewbies.org/
It is a great place to start. It describes a list of relatively simple
problems that need to be cleaned up and fixed within the Linux kernel
source tree. Working with the developers in charge of this project, you
will learn the basics of getting your patch into the Linux kernel tree,
and possibly be pointed in the direction of what to go work on next, if
you do not already have an idea.
If you already have a chunk of code that you want to put into the kernel
tree, but need some help getting it in the proper form, the
kernel-mentors project was created to help you out with this. It is a
mailing list, and can be found at:
http://selenic.com/mailman/listinfo/kernel-mentors
Before making any actual modifications to the Linux kernel code, it is
imperative to understand how the code in question works. For this
purpose, nothing is better than reading through it directly (most tricky
bits are commented well), perhaps even with the help of specialized
tools. One such tool that is particularly recommended is the Linux
Cross-Reference project, which is able to present source code in a
self-referential, indexed webpage format. An excellent up-to-date
repository of the kernel code may be found at:
http://sosdg.org/~coywolf/lxr/
The development process
-----------------------
Linux kernel development process currently consists of a few different
main kernel "branches" and lots of different subsystem-specific kernel
branches. These different branches are:
- main 2.6.x kernel tree
- 2.6.x.y -stable kernel tree
- 2.6.x -git kernel patches
- 2.6.x -mm kernel patches
- subsystem specific kernel trees and patches
2.6.x kernel tree
-----------------
2.6.x kernels are maintained by Linus Torvalds, and can be found on
kernel.org in the pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/ directory. It's development process
is as follows:
- As soon a new kernel is released a two weeks windows is open, during this
period of time maintainers can submit big diffs to Linus, usually the
patched sited in -mm kernels for a few weeks. The preferred way to submit
big changes is using git (more information about git can be found at
http://git.or.cz/) but plain patches are also just fine.
- After two weeks a -rc1 kernel is released and now is possible to push only
patches that do not include new functionalities that could affect the
stability of the whole kernel. Please note that a whole new driver (or
filesystem) might be accepted after -rc1 because there is no risk of
causing regressions with such a change as long as the change is
self-contained and does not affect areas outside of the code that is being
added. git can be used to send patches to Linus after -rc1 is
released, but the patches need to also be sent to a public mailing
list for review.
- A new -rc is released whenever Linus deems the current git (the
kernel's source management) tree to be in a reasonably sane state
adequate for testing. The goal is to release a new -rc kernel every
week.
- Process continues until the kernel is considered "ready", the
process should last around 6 weeks.
It is worth to mention what Andrew Morton wrote on the linux-kernel
mailing list about kernel releases:
"Nobody knows when a kernel will be released, because it's
released according to perceived bug status, not according to a
preconceived timeline."
2.6.x.y -stable kernel tree
---------------------------
Kernels with 4 digit versions are -stable kernels. They contain
relativly small and critical fixes for security problems or significant
regressions discovered in a given 2.6.x kernel.
This is the recommended branch for users who want the most recent stable
kernel and are not interested in helping test development/experimental
versions.
If no 2.6.x.y kernel is available, then the highest numbered 2.6.x
kernel is the current stable kernel.
2.6.x.y are maintained by the "stable" team <[email protected]>, are
released almost every week.
The file Documentation/stable_kernel_rules.txt in the kernel tree
documents what kinds of changes are acceptable for the -stable tree, and
how the release process works.
2.6.x -git patches
------------------
These are daily snapshots of Linus' kernel tree which is managed in a
git repository (hence the name.) These patches are usually released
daily and represent the current state of Linus' tree. They are more
experimental than -rc kernels since they are generated automatically
without even a cursory glance to see if they are sane.
2.6.x -mm kernel patches
------------------------
These are experimental kernel patches released by Andrew Morton. Andrew
takes all of the different subsystem kernel trees and patches and mushes
them together, along with a lot of patches that have been plucked from
the linux-kernel mailing list. This tree serves as a proving ground for
new features and patches. Once a patch has proved its worth in -mm for
a while Andrew or the subsystem maintainer pushes it on to Linus for
inclusion in mainline.
It is heavily encouraged that all new patches get tested in the -mm tree
before they are sent to Linus for inclusion in the main kernel tree.
These kernels are not appropriate for use on systems that are supposed
to be stable and they are more risky to run than any of the other
branches.
If you wish to help out with the kernel development process, please test
and use these kernel releases and provide feedback to the linux-kernel
mailing list if you have any problems, and if everything works properly.
These kernels in addition to all the other experimental patches they
contain usually also contain any changes in the mainline -git kernels
available at the time of release.
The -mm kernels are not released on a fixed schedule, but usually a few
-mm kernels are released in between each -rc kernel (1 to 3 is common).
Subsystem Specific kernel trees and patches
-------------------------------------------
A number of the different kernel subsystem developers expose their
development trees so that others can see what is happening in the
different areas of the kernel. These trees are pulled into the -mm
kernel releases as described above.
Here is a list of some of the different kernel trees available:
git trees:
- Kbuild development tree, Sam Ravnborg <[email protected]>
kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/sam/kbuild.git
- ACPI development tree, Len Brown <[email protected]>
kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/lenb/linux-acpi-2.6.git
- Block development tree, Jens Axboe <[email protected]>
kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/axboe/linux-2.6-block.git
- DRM development tree, Dave Airlie <[email protected]>
kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/airlied/drm-2.6.git
- ia64 development tree, Tony Luck <[email protected]>
kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/aegl/linux-2.6.git
- ieee1394 development tree, Jody McIntyre <[email protected]>
kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/scjody/ieee1394.git
- infiniband, Roland Dreier <[email protected]>
kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/roland/infiniband.git
- libata, Jeff Garzik <[email protected]>
kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/jgarzik/libata-dev.git
- network drivers, Jeff Garzik <[email protected]>
kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/jgarzik/netdev-2.6.git
- pcmcia, Dominik Brodowski <[email protected]>
kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/brodo/pcmcia-2.6.git
- SCSI, James Bottomley <[email protected]>
kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/jejb/scsi-misc-2.6.git
quilt trees:
- USB, PCI, Driver Core, and I2C, Greg Kroah-Hartman <[email protected]>
kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/gregkh/gregkh-2.6/
Bug Reporting
-------------
bugzilla.kernel.org is where the Linux kernel developers track kernel
bugs. Users are encouraged to report all bugs that they find in this
tool.
The file REPORTING-BUGS in the main kernel source directory has a good
template for how to report a possible kernel bug, and details what kind
of information is needed by the kernel developers to help track down the
problem.
Mailing lists
-------------
As some of the above documents describe, the majority of the core kernel
developers participate on the Linux Kernel Mailing list. Details on how
to subscribe and unsubscribe from the list can be found at:
http://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html#linux-kernel
There are archives of the mailing list on the web in many different
places. Use a search engine to find these archives. For example:
http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel
It is highly recommended that you search the archives about the topic
you want to bring up, before you post it to the list. A lot of things
are already discussed in detail and are only recorded at the mailing
list archives.
Most of the individual kernel subsystems also have their own separate
mailing list where they do their development efforts. See the
MAINTAINERS file for a list of what these lists are for the different
groups.
Many of the lists are hosted on kernel.org. Information on them can be
found at:
http://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html
Please remember to follow good behavioral habits when using the lists.
Though a bit cheesy, the following URL has some simple guidelines for
interacting with the list (or any list):
http://www.albion.com/netiquette/
If multiple people respond to your mail, the CC: list of recipients may
get pretty large. Don't remove anybody from the CC: list without a good
reason, or don't reply only to the list address. Get used to receiving the
mail twice, one from the sender and the one from the list, and don't try
to tune that by adding fancy mail-headers, people will not like it.
Remember to keep the context and the attribution of your replies intact,
keep the "John Kernelhacker wrote ...:" lines at the top of your reply, and
add your statements between the individual quoted sections instead of
writing at the top of the mail.
If you add patches to your mail, make sure they are plain readable text
as stated in Documentation/SubmittingPatches. Kernel developers don't
want to deal with attachments or compressed patches; they may want
to comment on individual lines of your patch, which works only that way.
Make sure you use a mail program that does not mangle spaces and tab
characters. A good first test is to send the mail to yourself and try
to apply your own patch by yourself. If that doesn't work, get your
mail program fixed or change it until it works.
Above all, please remember to show respect to other subscribers.
Working with the community
--------------------------
The goal of the kernel community is to provide the best possible kernel
there is. When you submit a patch for acceptance, it will be reviewed
on its technical merits and those alone. So, what should you be
expecting?
- criticism
- comments
- requests for change
- requests justification
- silence
Remember, this is part of getting your patch into the kernel. You have
to be able to take criticism and comments about your patches, evaluate
them at a technical level and either rework your patches or provide
clear and concise reasoning as to why those changes should not be made.
If there are no responses to your posting, wait a few days and try
again, sometimes things get lost in the huge volume.
What should you not do?
- expect your patch to be accepted without question
- become defensive
- ignore comments
- resubmit the patch without making any of the requested changes
In a community that is looking for the best technical solution possible,
there will always be differing opinions on how beneficial a patch is.
You have to be cooperative, and willing to adapt your idea to fit within
the kernel. Or at least be willing to prove your idea is worth it.
Remember, being wrong is acceptable as long as you are willing to work
toward a solution that is right.
Differences between the kernel community and corporate structures
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The kernel community works differently than most traditional corporate
development environments. Here are a list of things that you can try to
do to try to avoid problems:
Good things to say regarding your proposed changes:
- "This solves multiple problems."
- "This deletes 2000 lines of code."
- "Here is a patch that explains what I am trying to describe."
- "I tested it on 5 different architectures..."
- "Here is a series of small patches that..."
- "This increases performance on typical machines..."
Bad things you should avoid saying:
- "We did it this way in AIX/ptx/Solaris, so therefore it must be
good..."
- "I've being doing this for 20 years, so..."
- "It makes this proprietary benchmark go faster"
- "This is required for my company to make money"
- "This is for our Enterprise product line."
- "Here is my 1000 page design document that describes my idea"
- "I've been working on this for 6 months..."
- "Here's a 5000 line patch that..."
- "I rewrote all of the current mess, and here it is..."
- "I have a deadline, and this patch needs to be applied now."
Another way the kernel community is different than most traditional
software engineering work environments is the faceless nature of
interaction. One benefit of using email and irc as the primary forms of
communication is the lack of discrimination based on gender or race.
The Linux kernel work environment is accepting of women and minorities
because all you are is an email address. The international aspect also
helps to level the playing field because you can't guess gender based on
a person's name. A man may be named Andrea and a woman may be named Pat.
Most women who have worked in the Linux kernel and have expressed an
opinion have had positive experiences. Here is a group that is a good
starting point for women interested in contributing to Linux:
http://www.linuxchix.org/
The language barrier can cause problems for some people who are not
comfortable with English. A good grasp of the language can be needed in
order to get ideas across properly on mailing lists, so it is
recommended that you check your emails to make sure they make sense in
English before sending them.
Break your changes up
---------------------
The Linux kernel community does not gladly accept large chunks of code
dropped on it all at once. The changes need to be properly introduced,
discussed, and broken up into tiny, individual portions. This is almost
the exact opposite of what companies are used to doing. Your proposal
should also be introduced very early in the development process, so that
you can receive feedback on what you are doing. It also lets the
community feel that you are working with them, and not simply using them
as a dumping ground for your feature. However, don't send 50 emails at
one time to a mailing list, your patch series should be smaller than
that almost all of the time.
The reasons for breaking things up are the following:
1) Small patches increase the likelihood that your patches will be
applied, since they don't take much time or effort to verify for
correctness. A 5 line patch can be applied by a maintainer with
barely a second glance. However, a 500 line patch may take hours to
review for correctness (the time it takes is exponentially
proportional to the size of the patch, or something).
Small patches also make it very easy to debug when something goes
wrong. It's much easier to back out patches one by one than it is
to dissect a very large patch after it's been applied (and broken
something).
2) It's important not only to send small patches, but also to rewrite
and simplify (or simply re-order) patches before submitting them.
Here is an analogy from kernel developer Al Viro:
"Think of a teacher grading homework from a math student. The
teacher does not want to see the student's trials and errors
before they came up with the solution. They want to see the
cleanest, most elegant answer. A good student knows this, and
would never submit her intermediate work before the final
solution."
The same is true of kernel development. The maintainers and
reviewers do not want to see the thought process behind the
solution to the problem one is solving. They want to see a
simple and elegant solution."
It may be challenging to keep the balance between presenting an elegant
solution and working together with the community and discuss your
unfinished work. Therefore it is good to get early in the process to
get feedback to improve your work, but also keep your changes in small
chunks that they may get already accepted, even when your whole task is
not ready for inclusion now.
Also realize that it is not acceptable to send patches for inclusion
that are unfinished and will be "fixed up later."
Justify your change
-------------------
Along with breaking up your patches, it is very important for you to let
the Linux community know why they should add this change. New features
must be justified as being needed and useful.
Document your change
--------------------
When sending in your patches, pay special attention to what you say in
the text in your email. This information will become the ChangeLog
information for the patch, and will be preserved for everyone to see for
all time. It should describe the patch completely, containing:
- why the change is necessary
- the overall design approach in the patch
- implementation details
- testing results
For more details on what the this should all look like, please see the
ChangeLog section of the document:
"The Perfect Patch"
http://www.zip.com.au/~akpm/linux/patches/stuff/tpp.txt
All of these things are sometimes very hard to do. It can take years to
perfect these practices (if at all). It's a continuous process of
improvement that requires a lot of patience and determination. But
don't give up, it's possible. Many have done it before, and each had to
start exactly where you are now.
----------
Thanks to Paolo Ciarrocchi who allowed the "Development Process" section
to be based on text he had written, and to Randy Dunlap and Gerrit
Huizenga for some of the list of things you should and should not say.
Also thanks to Pat Mochel, Hanna Linder, Randy Dunlap, Kay Sievers,
Vojtech Pavlik, Jan Kara, Josh Boyer, Kees Cook, Andrew Morton, Andi
Kleen, Vadim Lobanov, and Alex Shepard for their review and comments on
early drafts of this document.
Maintainer: Greg Kroah-Hartman <[email protected]>
On 11/15/05, Greg KH <[email protected]> wrote:
> - After two weeks a -rc1 kernel is released and now is possible to push only
> patches that do not include new functionalities that could affect the
> stability of the whole kernel. Please note that a whole new driver (or
(functionalities is not a word, this maybe better)
- After two weeks a -rc1 kernel is released and it is only possible to
push patches which don't offer new features, or could affect the
stability of the kernel.
> 2.6.x.y -stable kernel tree
> ---------------------------
> Kernels with 4 digit versions are -stable kernels. They contain
> relativly small and critical fixes for security problems or significant
> regressions discovered in a given 2.6.x kernel.
relatively
--
Anyone who quotes me in their sig is an idiot. -- Rusty Russell.
On 11/15/05, Greg KH <[email protected]> wrote:
> Here's an updated version of the "HOTO do Linux kernel development"
> document that I've been working on.
>
> For a description of why I started this, please see:
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/348689
>
> I've addressed all of the comments that I have received, and flushed out
> the the TODO sections. I'd appreciate any comments on this version, as
> I think it's looking pretty good and finished for now. If no one
> objects, I'll send it in a patch for inclusion in the main tree soon.
>
[snip]
>
> Documentation/applying-patches.txt
> A good introduction describing exactly what a patch is, how to
> create it, and how to apply it to the different development branches
> of the kernel.
>
[snip]
I don't believe I mention anything about patch /creation/ in
applying-patches.txt, at least the point of the document when I wrote
it was to explain what a patch is, how to apply it and give a short
description of the various trees.
So, your description is accurate except for the "how to create it" bit.
--
Jesper Juhl <[email protected]>
Don't top-post http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html
Plain text mails only, please http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
Greg KH <[email protected]> writes:
> - "Programming the 80386" by Crawford and Gelsinger [Sybek]
You mean "[Sybex]"?
Andreas.
--
Andreas Schwab, SuSE Labs, [email protected]
SuSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstra?e 5, 90409 N?rnberg, Germany
PGP key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."
On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 01:52:46PM -0800, Avuton Olrich wrote:
> On 11/15/05, Greg KH <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > - After two weeks a -rc1 kernel is released and now is possible to push only
> > patches that do not include new functionalities that could affect the
> > stability of the whole kernel. Please note that a whole new driver (or
>
> (functionalities is not a word, this maybe better)
>
> - After two weeks a -rc1 kernel is released and it is only possible to
> push patches which don't offer new features, or could affect the
> stability of the kernel.
>
> > 2.6.x.y -stable kernel tree
> > ---------------------------
> > Kernels with 4 digit versions are -stable kernels. They contain
> > relativly small and critical fixes for security problems or significant
> > regressions discovered in a given 2.6.x kernel.
>
> relatively
Nice, thanks for finding these, I've fixed them up.
greg k-h
On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 11:08:39PM +0100, Andreas Schwab wrote:
> Greg KH <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > - "Programming the 80386" by Crawford and Gelsinger [Sybek]
>
> You mean "[Sybex]"?
Yes, good catch, thanks.
greg k-h
On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 11:06:04PM +0100, Jesper Juhl wrote:
> On 11/15/05, Greg KH <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Here's an updated version of the "HOTO do Linux kernel development"
> > document that I've been working on.
> >
> > For a description of why I started this, please see:
> > http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/348689
> >
> > I've addressed all of the comments that I have received, and flushed out
> > the the TODO sections. I'd appreciate any comments on this version, as
> > I think it's looking pretty good and finished for now. If no one
> > objects, I'll send it in a patch for inclusion in the main tree soon.
> >
> [snip]
> >
> > Documentation/applying-patches.txt
> > A good introduction describing exactly what a patch is, how to
> > create it, and how to apply it to the different development branches
> > of the kernel.
> >
> [snip]
>
> I don't believe I mention anything about patch /creation/ in
> applying-patches.txt, at least the point of the document when I wrote
> it was to explain what a patch is, how to apply it and give a short
> description of the various trees.
> So, your description is accurate except for the "how to create it" bit.
Ah, you are right. I was thinking of the SubmittingPatches file, that
is where we describe how to create a patch.
thanks for catching this, I've fixed it up.
greg k-h
On 11/15/05, Greg KH <[email protected]> wrote:
> Here's an updated version of the "HOTO do Linux kernel development"
> document that I've been working on.
>
[snip]
> Here is a list of some of the different kernel trees available:
> git trees:
> - Kbuild development tree, Sam Ravnborg <[email protected]>
> kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/sam/kbuild.git
>
> - ACPI development tree, Len Brown <[email protected]>
> kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/lenb/linux-acpi-2.6.git
>
> - Block development tree, Jens Axboe <[email protected]>
> kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/axboe/linux-2.6-block.git
>
> - DRM development tree, Dave Airlie <[email protected]>
> kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/airlied/drm-2.6.git
>
> - ia64 development tree, Tony Luck <[email protected]>
> kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/aegl/linux-2.6.git
>
> - ieee1394 development tree, Jody McIntyre <[email protected]>
> kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/scjody/ieee1394.git
>
> - infiniband, Roland Dreier <[email protected]>
> kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/roland/infiniband.git
>
> - libata, Jeff Garzik <[email protected]>
> kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/jgarzik/libata-dev.git
>
> - network drivers, Jeff Garzik <[email protected]>
> kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/jgarzik/netdev-2.6.git
>
> - pcmcia, Dominik Brodowski <[email protected]>
> kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/brodo/pcmcia-2.6.git
>
> - SCSI, James Bottomley <[email protected]>
> kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/jejb/scsi-misc-2.6.git
>
As I see it, this list is almost guaranteed to a) be incomplete, b) be
outdated almost from the start, c) require often patching of your
HOWTO to keep updated when tree locations/names change or people
change email addr.
Wouldn't it be better to simply point to http://kernel.org/git for the list?
And email addresses for people can be found in CREDITS & MAINTAINERS,
why duplicate info here instead of pointing to those 2 canonical
documents?
--
Jesper Juhl <[email protected]>
Don't top-post http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html
Plain text mails only, please http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
On 11/15/05, Greg KH <[email protected]> wrote:
> Here's an updated version of the "HOTO do Linux kernel development"
> document that I've been working on.
>
[snip]
A few suggestions;
You point to a lot of documents, but never mention the main kernel
README nor Documentation/Changes . I think you should.
The README provides good info on configuring, building and installing
the kernel and other bits that will be useful to new kernel
developers.
Similarly the Documentation/Changes document provides important info
on required versions of tools needed to build and/or use the kernel.
Making new developers aware of this info is important so they can
verify their environment is up-to-date for the kernel version they
work on.
--
Jesper Juhl <[email protected]>
Don't top-post http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html
Plain text mails only, please http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 11:27:22PM +0100, Jesper Juhl wrote:
> On 11/15/05, Greg KH <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Here's an updated version of the "HOTO do Linux kernel development"
> > document that I've been working on.
> >
> [snip]
>
> A few suggestions;
>
> You point to a lot of documents, but never mention the main kernel
> README nor Documentation/Changes . I think you should.
Good points, I've added these files, thanks for catching this.
greg k-h
On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 11:21:03PM +0100, Jesper Juhl wrote:
> On 11/15/05, Greg KH <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Here's an updated version of the "HOTO do Linux kernel development"
> > document that I've been working on.
> >
> [snip]
> > Here is a list of some of the different kernel trees available:
> > git trees:
> > - Kbuild development tree, Sam Ravnborg <[email protected]>
> > kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/sam/kbuild.git
> >
> > - ACPI development tree, Len Brown <[email protected]>
> > kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/lenb/linux-acpi-2.6.git
> >
> > - Block development tree, Jens Axboe <[email protected]>
> > kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/axboe/linux-2.6-block.git
> >
> > - DRM development tree, Dave Airlie <[email protected]>
> > kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/airlied/drm-2.6.git
> >
> > - ia64 development tree, Tony Luck <[email protected]>
> > kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/aegl/linux-2.6.git
> >
> > - ieee1394 development tree, Jody McIntyre <[email protected]>
> > kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/scjody/ieee1394.git
> >
> > - infiniband, Roland Dreier <[email protected]>
> > kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/roland/infiniband.git
> >
> > - libata, Jeff Garzik <[email protected]>
> > kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/jgarzik/libata-dev.git
> >
> > - network drivers, Jeff Garzik <[email protected]>
> > kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/jgarzik/netdev-2.6.git
> >
> > - pcmcia, Dominik Brodowski <[email protected]>
> > kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/brodo/pcmcia-2.6.git
> >
> > - SCSI, James Bottomley <[email protected]>
> > kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/jejb/scsi-misc-2.6.git
> >
>
> As I see it, this list is almost guaranteed to a) be incomplete, b) be
> outdated almost from the start, c) require often patching of your
> HOWTO to keep updated when tree locations/names change or people
> change email addr.
patches often isn't a problem, the kernel seems to handle that just fine
:)
> Wouldn't it be better to simply point to http://kernel.org/git for the list?
Hm, probably. I'll add that also, I think it is good to point to the
real trees, as people do want to know that at times and this information
isn't listed anywhere (as evident by the ammount of digging I had to do
to find these trees...)
> And email addresses for people can be found in CREDITS & MAINTAINERS,
> why duplicate info here instead of pointing to those 2 canonical
> documents?
I'm not meaning to duplicate anything, as we don't have "location of
development git/quilt tree" entry in the MAINTAINERS file. Hm, that
does sound like the proper place for such an entry, doesn't it? Anyone
want to propose that addition?
thanks,
greg k-h
On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 01:05:00PM -0800, Greg KH wrote:
> Here's an updated version of the "HOTO do Linux kernel development"
> document that I've been working on.
>...
Good idea :-)
Some comments below.
>...
> Introduction
> ------------
>...
> The kernel is written mostly in C, with some architecture-dependent
> parts written in assembly. A good understanding of C is required for
> kernel development. Assembly (any architecture) is not required unless
> you plan to do low-level development for that architecture. Though they
> are not a good substitute for a solid C education and/or years of
> experience, the following books are good for, if anything, reference:
> - "The C Programming Language" by Kernighan and Ritchie [Prentice Hall]
> - "Practical C Programming" by Steve Oualline [O'Reilly]
> - "Programming the 80386" by Crawford and Gelsinger [Sybek]
> - "UNIX Systems for Modern Architectures" by Curt Schimmel [Addison Wesley]
"UNIX Systems for Modern Architectures" is a good book about cpu caches.
But it's hardly interesting for the average driver writer and even less
a book about C programming.
LDD (as you might have heard, it's also available online for free ;-) )
and the book by Robert Love are good starting points for learning kernel
programming, and they should IMHO be listed here.
> The kernel is written using GNU C and the GNU toolchain. While it
> adheres to the ISO C89 standard, it uses a number of extensions that are
> not featured in the standard. The kernel is a freestanding C
> environment, with no reliance on the standard C library, so some
> portions of the C standard are not supported. Arbitrary long long
> divisions and floating point are not allowed. It can sometimes be
> difficult to understand the assumptions the kernel has on the toolchain
> and the extensions that it uses, and unfortunately there is no
> definitive reference for them. Please check the gcc info pages (`info
> gcc`) for some information on them.
>
> Please remember that you are trying to learn how to work with the
> existing development community. It is a very diverse group of people,
> with very high standards for coding, style and procedure. These
I'd drop the "very", it sounds a bit arrogant.
> standards have been created over time based on what they have found to
> work best for such a large and geographically dispersed team. Try to
> learn as much as possible about these standards ahead of time, as they
> are well documented; do not expect people to adapt to you or your
> company's way of doing things.
>
>
> Legal Issues
> ------------
>
> The Linux kernel source code is released under the GPL. Please see the
> file, COPYING, in the main directory of the source tree, for details on
> the license. If you have further questions about the license, please
> contact a lawyer, and do not ask on the Linux kernel mailing list. The
> people on the mailing lists are not lawyers, and you should not rely on
> their statements on legal matters.
I understand this "ask your lawyer" regarding non-free modules.
But for many of the other GPL questions a link to
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html
might help.
>...
> Becoming A Kernel Developer
> ---------------------------
>...
> If you already have a chunk of code that you want to put into the kernel
> tree, but need some help getting it in the proper form, the
> kernel-mentors project was created to help you out with this. It is a
> mailing list, and can be found at:
> http://selenic.com/mailman/listinfo/kernel-mentors
This list seems to be nearly dead, and it seems the following one is now
used instead:
http://mail.nl.linux.org/kernelnewbies/
>...
> Bug Reporting
> -------------
>
> bugzilla.kernel.org is where the Linux kernel developers track kernel
> bugs. Users are encouraged to report all bugs that they find in this
> tool.
Please add a reference to
http://test.kernel.org/bugzilla/faq.html
>...
> Working with the community
> --------------------------
>
> The goal of the kernel community is to provide the best possible kernel
> there is. When you submit a patch for acceptance, it will be reviewed
> on its technical merits and those alone. So, what should you be
> expecting?
> - criticism
> - comments
> - requests for change
> - requests justification
> - silence
>
> Remember, this is part of getting your patch into the kernel. You have
> to be able to take criticism and comments about your patches, evaluate
> them at a technical level and either rework your patches or provide
> clear and concise reasoning as to why those changes should not be made.
> If there are no responses to your posting, wait a few days and try
> again, sometimes things get lost in the huge volume.
>
> What should you not do?
> - expect your patch to be accepted without question
> - become defensive
> - ignore comments
> - resubmit the patch without making any of the requested changes
>
> In a community that is looking for the best technical solution possible,
> there will always be differing opinions on how beneficial a patch is.
> You have to be cooperative, and willing to adapt your idea to fit within
> the kernel. Or at least be willing to prove your idea is worth it.
> Remember, being wrong is acceptable as long as you are willing to work
> toward a solution that is right.
Can you add something like:
It's normal that the answers to your first patch might simply be a list
of a dozen things you should correct. This does _not_ imply that your
patch will not be accepted, and it is _not_ meant against you
personally. Simply correct all issues raised against your patch and
resend it.
> Differences between the kernel community and corporate structures
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The kernel community works differently than most traditional corporate
> development environments. Here are a list of things that you can try to
> do to try to avoid problems:
> Good things to say regarding your proposed changes:
> - "This solves multiple problems."
> - "This deletes 2000 lines of code."
> - "Here is a patch that explains what I am trying to describe."
> - "I tested it on 5 different architectures..."
> - "Here is a series of small patches that..."
> - "This increases performance on typical machines..."
>
> Bad things you should avoid saying:
> - "We did it this way in AIX/ptx/Solaris, so therefore it must be
> good..."
> - "I've being doing this for 20 years, so..."
> - "It makes this proprietary benchmark go faster"
I'd drop the "proprietary benchmark" from the "bad" list.
A benchmark alone might not be enough to justify a patch, but in an
otherwise justified patch this would simply be an indication that some
testing was done (which is positive).
> - "This is required for my company to make money"
> - "This is for our Enterprise product line."
> - "Here is my 1000 page design document that describes my idea"
> - "I've been working on this for 6 months..."
> - "Here's a 5000 line patch that..."
> - "I rewrote all of the current mess, and here it is..."
> - "I have a deadline, and this patch needs to be applied now."
>
> Another way the kernel community is different than most traditional
> software engineering work environments is the faceless nature of
> interaction. One benefit of using email and irc as the primary forms of
> communication is the lack of discrimination based on gender or race.
> The Linux kernel work environment is accepting of women and minorities
> because all you are is an email address. The international aspect also
> helps to level the playing field because you can't guess gender based on
> a person's name. A man may be named Andrea and a woman may be named Pat.
> Most women who have worked in the Linux kernel and have expressed an
> opinion have had positive experiences.
First you say that gender doesn't matter.
> Here is a group that is a good
> starting point for women interested in contributing to Linux:
> http://www.linuxchix.org/
>...
Then you tell where women belong to...
I'd simply drop this reference to linuxchix.org.
cu
Adrian
--
"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed
On Wed, Nov 16, 2005 at 01:23:48AM +0100, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > Introduction
> > ------------
> >...
> > The kernel is written mostly in C, with some architecture-dependent
> > parts written in assembly. A good understanding of C is required for
> > kernel development. Assembly (any architecture) is not required unless
> > you plan to do low-level development for that architecture. Though they
> > are not a good substitute for a solid C education and/or years of
> > experience, the following books are good for, if anything, reference:
> > - "The C Programming Language" by Kernighan and Ritchie [Prentice Hall]
> > - "Practical C Programming" by Steve Oualline [O'Reilly]
> > - "Programming the 80386" by Crawford and Gelsinger [Sybek]
> > - "UNIX Systems for Modern Architectures" by Curt Schimmel [Addison Wesley]
>
>
> "UNIX Systems for Modern Architectures" is a good book about cpu caches.
>
> But it's hardly interesting for the average driver writer and even less
> a book about C programming.
True, I've removed it now, thanks.
> LDD (as you might have heard, it's also available online for free ;-) )
> and the book by Robert Love are good starting points for learning kernel
> programming, and they should IMHO be listed here.
But that's what the Documentation/kernel-docs.txt file has in it. I
don't want to get into judging which kernel books go into this file, as
people might think I am a bit biased :)
> > The kernel is written using GNU C and the GNU toolchain. While it
> > adheres to the ISO C89 standard, it uses a number of extensions that are
> > not featured in the standard. The kernel is a freestanding C
> > environment, with no reliance on the standard C library, so some
> > portions of the C standard are not supported. Arbitrary long long
> > divisions and floating point are not allowed. It can sometimes be
> > difficult to understand the assumptions the kernel has on the toolchain
> > and the extensions that it uses, and unfortunately there is no
> > definitive reference for them. Please check the gcc info pages (`info
> > gcc`) for some information on them.
> >
> > Please remember that you are trying to learn how to work with the
> > existing development community. It is a very diverse group of people,
> > with very high standards for coding, style and procedure. These
>
>
> I'd drop the "very", it sounds a bit arrogant.
Good point, dropped.
> > standards have been created over time based on what they have found to
> > work best for such a large and geographically dispersed team. Try to
> > learn as much as possible about these standards ahead of time, as they
> > are well documented; do not expect people to adapt to you or your
> > company's way of doing things.
> >
> >
> > Legal Issues
> > ------------
> >
> > The Linux kernel source code is released under the GPL. Please see the
> > file, COPYING, in the main directory of the source tree, for details on
> > the license. If you have further questions about the license, please
> > contact a lawyer, and do not ask on the Linux kernel mailing list. The
> > people on the mailing lists are not lawyers, and you should not rely on
> > their statements on legal matters.
>
>
> I understand this "ask your lawyer" regarding non-free modules.
>
> But for many of the other GPL questions a link to
> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html
> might help.
Added, thanks.
> >...
> > Becoming A Kernel Developer
> > ---------------------------
> >...
> > If you already have a chunk of code that you want to put into the kernel
> > tree, but need some help getting it in the proper form, the
> > kernel-mentors project was created to help you out with this. It is a
> > mailing list, and can be found at:
> > http://selenic.com/mailman/listinfo/kernel-mentors
>
>
> This list seems to be nearly dead, and it seems the following one is now
> used instead:
> http://mail.nl.linux.org/kernelnewbies/
I do mention the kernelnewbies project, which includes the mailing list.
I hope the mentor's project picks up, I just think not enough people
realize it is there.
> >...
> > Bug Reporting
> > -------------
> >
> > bugzilla.kernel.org is where the Linux kernel developers track kernel
> > bugs. Users are encouraged to report all bugs that they find in this
> > tool.
>
>
> Please add a reference to
> http://test.kernel.org/bugzilla/faq.html
Nice, I didn't even realize that was there :)
> >...
> > Working with the community
> > --------------------------
> >
> > The goal of the kernel community is to provide the best possible kernel
> > there is. When you submit a patch for acceptance, it will be reviewed
> > on its technical merits and those alone. So, what should you be
> > expecting?
> > - criticism
> > - comments
> > - requests for change
> > - requests justification
> > - silence
> >
> > Remember, this is part of getting your patch into the kernel. You have
> > to be able to take criticism and comments about your patches, evaluate
> > them at a technical level and either rework your patches or provide
> > clear and concise reasoning as to why those changes should not be made.
> > If there are no responses to your posting, wait a few days and try
> > again, sometimes things get lost in the huge volume.
> >
> > What should you not do?
> > - expect your patch to be accepted without question
> > - become defensive
> > - ignore comments
> > - resubmit the patch without making any of the requested changes
> >
> > In a community that is looking for the best technical solution possible,
> > there will always be differing opinions on how beneficial a patch is.
> > You have to be cooperative, and willing to adapt your idea to fit within
> > the kernel. Or at least be willing to prove your idea is worth it.
> > Remember, being wrong is acceptable as long as you are willing to work
> > toward a solution that is right.
>
>
> Can you add something like:
>
> It's normal that the answers to your first patch might simply be a list
> of a dozen things you should correct. This does _not_ imply that your
> patch will not be accepted, and it is _not_ meant against you
> personally. Simply correct all issues raised against your patch and
> resend it.
Nice, added.
> > Differences between the kernel community and corporate structures
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > The kernel community works differently than most traditional corporate
> > development environments. Here are a list of things that you can try to
> > do to try to avoid problems:
> > Good things to say regarding your proposed changes:
> > - "This solves multiple problems."
> > - "This deletes 2000 lines of code."
> > - "Here is a patch that explains what I am trying to describe."
> > - "I tested it on 5 different architectures..."
> > - "Here is a series of small patches that..."
> > - "This increases performance on typical machines..."
> >
> > Bad things you should avoid saying:
> > - "We did it this way in AIX/ptx/Solaris, so therefore it must be
> > good..."
> > - "I've being doing this for 20 years, so..."
> > - "It makes this proprietary benchmark go faster"
>
>
> I'd drop the "proprietary benchmark" from the "bad" list.
Why? We don't have any way of reproducing it to see if it is a valid
problem or not.
> A benchmark alone might not be enough to justify a patch, but in an
> otherwise justified patch this would simply be an indication that some
> testing was done (which is positive).
Yes, testing is positive, but with things we ourselves can't test for,
doesn't always help out much. A number of groups are working on
creating "open" benchmarks that we can use.
But yeah, I do remember the intel reports that are helpful, so I'll drop
this sentance.
> > - "This is required for my company to make money"
> > - "This is for our Enterprise product line."
> > - "Here is my 1000 page design document that describes my idea"
> > - "I've been working on this for 6 months..."
> > - "Here's a 5000 line patch that..."
> > - "I rewrote all of the current mess, and here it is..."
> > - "I have a deadline, and this patch needs to be applied now."
> >
> > Another way the kernel community is different than most traditional
> > software engineering work environments is the faceless nature of
> > interaction. One benefit of using email and irc as the primary forms of
> > communication is the lack of discrimination based on gender or race.
> > The Linux kernel work environment is accepting of women and minorities
> > because all you are is an email address. The international aspect also
> > helps to level the playing field because you can't guess gender based on
> > a person's name. A man may be named Andrea and a woman may be named Pat.
> > Most women who have worked in the Linux kernel and have expressed an
> > opinion have had positive experiences.
>
>
> First you say that gender doesn't matter.
>
>
> > Here is a group that is a good
> > starting point for women interested in contributing to Linux:
> > http://www.linuxchix.org/
> >...
>
>
> Then you tell where women belong to...
>
> I'd simply drop this reference to linuxchix.org.
Heh, good point. I'll drop it.
thanks for the review, I appreciate it.
greg k-h
2005/11/16, Greg KH <[email protected]>:
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2005 at 01:23:48AM +0100, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > > Introduction
> > > ------------
> > >...
> > > The kernel is written mostly in C, with some architecture-dependent
> > > parts written in assembly. A good understanding of C is required for
> > > kernel development. Assembly (any architecture) is not required unless
> > > you plan to do low-level development for that architecture. Though they
> > > are not a good substitute for a solid C education and/or years of
> > > experience, the following books are good for, if anything, reference:
> > > - "The C Programming Language" by Kernighan and Ritchie [Prentice Hall]
> > > - "Practical C Programming" by Steve Oualline [O'Reilly]
> > > - "Programming the 80386" by Crawford and Gelsinger [Sybek]
> > > - "UNIX Systems for Modern Architectures" by Curt Schimmel [Addison Wesley]
> >
> >
> > "UNIX Systems for Modern Architectures" is a good book about cpu caches.
> >
> > But it's hardly interesting for the average driver writer and even less
> > a book about C programming.
>
> True, I've removed it now, thanks.
Also why you have to mention those non-free books here? I don't read
them and I live OK. There's plenty of free information one can always
find on the net.
>
> > LDD (as you might have heard, it's also available online for free ;-) )
> > and the book by Robert Love are good starting points for learning kernel
> > programming, and they should IMHO be listed here.
>
> But that's what the Documentation/kernel-docs.txt file has in it. I
> don't want to get into judging which kernel books go into this file, as
> people might think I am a bit biased :)
>
--
Coywolf Qi Hunt
http://sosdg.org/~coywolf/
On Wednesday 16 November 2005 01:46, Coywolf Qi Hunt wrote:
> 2005/11/16, Greg KH <[email protected]>:
> > On Wed, Nov 16, 2005 at 01:23:48AM +0100, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > > > Introduction
> > > > ------------
> > > >...
> > > > The kernel is written mostly in C, with some architecture-dependent
> > > > parts written in assembly. A good understanding of C is required for
> > > > kernel development. Assembly (any architecture) is not required
> > > > unless you plan to do low-level development for that architecture.
> > > > Though they are not a good substitute for a solid C education and/or
> > > > years of experience, the following books are good for, if anything,
> > > > reference: - "The C Programming Language" by Kernighan and Ritchie
> > > > [Prentice Hall] - "Practical C Programming" by Steve Oualline
> > > > [O'Reilly]
> > > > - "Programming the 80386" by Crawford and Gelsinger [Sybek]
> > > > - "UNIX Systems for Modern Architectures" by Curt Schimmel [Addison
> > > > Wesley]
> > >
> > > "UNIX Systems for Modern Architectures" is a good book about cpu
> > > caches.
> > >
> > > But it's hardly interesting for the average driver writer and even less
> > > a book about C programming.
> >
> > True, I've removed it now, thanks.
>
> Also why you have to mention those non-free books here? I don't read
> them and I live OK. There's plenty of free information one can always
> find on the net.
[snip]
Some people just prefer a hard copy (which obviously can't be produced for
nothing) instead of an on-line reference. I think google.com is already a
fairly obvious (almost instinctive) answer to any question these days.
Books vary in quality and comprehensiveness, recommendations are incredibly
useful for somebody faced with buying into a subject he has no real knowledge
of.
--
Cheers,
Alistair.
'No sense being pessimistic, it probably wouldn't work anyway.'
Third year Computer Science undergraduate.
1F2 55 South Clerk Street, Edinburgh, UK.
On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 05:10:32PM -0800, Greg KH wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2005 at 01:23:48AM +0100, Adrian Bunk wrote:
>...
> > LDD (as you might have heard, it's also available online for free ;-) )
> > and the book by Robert Love are good starting points for learning kernel
> > programming, and they should IMHO be listed here.
>
> But that's what the Documentation/kernel-docs.txt file has in it. I
It seems you haven't looked at kernel-docs.txt before saying this...
kernel-docs.txt is so heavily outdated we should better remove it.
> don't want to get into judging which kernel books go into this file, as
> people might think I am a bit biased :)
Judging from the questions I see from newbies on linux-kernel (who
should be the target audience of your document), you are omitting the
answer to the most frequently asked question.
I'd say noone disagrees that LDD and the book by Robert Love are the
books mentioned most often (and by different kernel developers) when
people ask which book to read as introduction for kernel hacking.
>...
> > >...
> > > Becoming A Kernel Developer
> > > ---------------------------
> > >...
> > > If you already have a chunk of code that you want to put into the kernel
> > > tree, but need some help getting it in the proper form, the
> > > kernel-mentors project was created to help you out with this. It is a
> > > mailing list, and can be found at:
> > > http://selenic.com/mailman/listinfo/kernel-mentors
> >
> >
> > This list seems to be nearly dead, and it seems the following one is now
> > used instead:
> > http://mail.nl.linux.org/kernelnewbies/
>
> I do mention the kernelnewbies project, which includes the mailing list.
> I hope the mentor's project picks up, I just think not enough people
> realize it is there.
>...
It's perhaps a bit out of the scope of this discussion, but do we really
need both of these lists? I don't see any real difference between them.
I'd say one of them is enough, or perhaps replace them with one at
kernel.org?
cu
Adrian
--
"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed
On Nov 15 2005, Avuton Olrich wrote:
> (functionalities is not a word, this maybe better)
Sorry, I am not a native English speaker, but I think that functionality
is a word in English.
<http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=functionality>.
Anyway, Greg, I like your text so much that I will hand it to the
instructor of "Technical English" at the University where I teach and,
perhaps, some students will like what they read.
Thanks for the initiative, Rog?rio Brito.
--
Rog?rio Brito : [email protected] : http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito
Homepage of the algorithms package : http://algorithms.berlios.de
Homepage on freshmeat: http://freshmeat.net/projects/algorithms/
On Wed, Nov 16, 2005 at 03:31:56AM -0200, Rog?rio Brito wrote:
>
> Anyway, Greg, I like your text so much that I will hand it to the
> instructor of "Technical English" at the University where I teach and,
> perhaps, some students will like what they read.
Heh, glad it can be used as a teaching tool. I know by the amount of
editing that this document went though by different people, all of the
grammar should be correct by now :)
thanks,
greg k-h
On Wed, Nov 16, 2005 at 03:17:54AM +0100, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 05:10:32PM -0800, Greg KH wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 16, 2005 at 01:23:48AM +0100, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> >...
> > > LDD (as you might have heard, it's also available online for free ;-) )
> > > and the book by Robert Love are good starting points for learning kernel
> > > programming, and they should IMHO be listed here.
> >
> > But that's what the Documentation/kernel-docs.txt file has in it. I
>
> It seems you haven't looked at kernel-docs.txt before saying this...
>
> kernel-docs.txt is so heavily outdated we should better remove it.
No, we should clean it up and update it. I think that Randy is
currently working on this.
> > don't want to get into judging which kernel books go into this file, as
> > people might think I am a bit biased :)
>
> Judging from the questions I see from newbies on linux-kernel (who
> should be the target audience of your document), you are omitting the
> answer to the most frequently asked question.
>
> I'd say noone disagrees that LDD and the book by Robert Love are the
> books mentioned most often (and by different kernel developers) when
> people ask which book to read as introduction for kernel hacking.
This document is to help describe the non-technical things about Linux
kernel development. The things that are not doucumented well, the
process and procedures that we go through to create this kernel.
The technical things are covered very well, by lots of other documents,
magazines, sites, and books. We should list those in the
kernel-docs.txt file.
> > > > Becoming A Kernel Developer
> > > > ---------------------------
> > > >...
> > > > If you already have a chunk of code that you want to put into the kernel
> > > > tree, but need some help getting it in the proper form, the
> > > > kernel-mentors project was created to help you out with this. It is a
> > > > mailing list, and can be found at:
> > > > http://selenic.com/mailman/listinfo/kernel-mentors
> > >
> > >
> > > This list seems to be nearly dead, and it seems the following one is now
> > > used instead:
> > > http://mail.nl.linux.org/kernelnewbies/
> >
> > I do mention the kernelnewbies project, which includes the mailing list.
> > I hope the mentor's project picks up, I just think not enough people
> > realize it is there.
> >...
>
> It's perhaps a bit out of the scope of this discussion, but do we really
> need both of these lists? I don't see any real difference between them.
It is out of the scope of this discussion :)
thanks,
greg k-h
On Tue, 2005-11-15 at 13:05 -0800, Greg KH wrote:
> - "Programming the 80386" by Crawford and Gelsinger [Sybek]
Maybe, but on the whole I suspect we'd do well if fewer people were
thinking about one particular legacy architecture when writing kernel
code.
Newbie kernel hackers ought to be working on something SMP, big-endian
and 64-bit. Get into good habits right away.
--
dwmw2
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005, David Woodhouse wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-11-15 at 13:05 -0800, Greg KH wrote:
> > - "Programming the 80386" by Crawford and Gelsinger [Sybek]
>
> Maybe, but on the whole I suspect we'd do well if fewer people were
> thinking about one particular legacy architecture when writing kernel
> code.
>
> Newbie kernel hackers ought to be working on something SMP, big-endian
> and 64-bit. Get into good habits right away.
or at least 2 of those 3 :)
--
~Randy
On Wed, 16 November 2005 17:28:09 +0000, David Woodhouse wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-11-15 at 13:05 -0800, Greg KH wrote:
> > - "Programming the 80386" by Crawford and Gelsinger [Sybek]
>
> Maybe, but on the whole I suspect we'd do well if fewer people were
> thinking about one particular legacy architecture when writing kernel
> code.
>
> Newbie kernel hackers ought to be working on something SMP, big-endian
> and 64-bit. Get into good habits right away.
And make their on-medium format the opposite from their hardware. It
is so much nicer if a missing conversion here and there _does_ cause
problems.
J?rn
--
Correctness comes second.
Features come third.
Performance comes last.
Maintainability is needed for all of them.
On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 02:30:58PM -0800, Greg KH wrote:
> I'm not meaning to duplicate anything, as we don't have "location of
> development git/quilt tree" entry in the MAINTAINERS file. Hm, that
> does sound like the proper place for such an entry, doesn't it? Anyone
> want to propose that addition?
Sure :)
BTW Greg, you are not currently listed as an I2C maintainer. Might
want to fix that :)
Cheers,
Jody
--
Add tree information to MAINTAINERS file.
Signed-off-by: Jody McIntyre <[email protected]>
Index: linux/MAINTAINERS
===================================================================
--- linux.orig/MAINTAINERS
+++ linux/MAINTAINERS
@@ -58,6 +58,7 @@ P: Person
M: Mail patches to
L: Mailing list that is relevant to this area
W: Web-page with status/info
+T: SCM tree type and URL. Type is one of: git, hg, quilt.
S: Status, one of the following:
Supported: Someone is actually paid to look after this.
@@ -183,6 +184,7 @@ P: Len Brown
M: [email protected]
L: [email protected]
W: http://acpi.sourceforge.net/
+T: git kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/lenb/linux-acpi-2.6.git
S: Maintained
AD1816 SOUND DRIVER
@@ -418,6 +420,7 @@ BLOCK LAYER
P: Jens Axboe
M: [email protected]
L: [email protected]
+T: git kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/axboe/linux-2.6-block.git
S: Maintained
BLUETOOTH SUBSYSTEM
@@ -803,12 +806,14 @@ DRIVER CORE, KOBJECTS, AND SYSFS
P: Greg Kroah-Hartman
M: [email protected]
L: [email protected]
+T: quilt kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/gregkh/gregkh-2.6/
S: Supported
DRM DRIVERS
P: David Airlie
M: [email protected]
L: [email protected]
+T: git kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/airlied/drm-2.6.git
S: Maintained
DSCC4 DRIVER
@@ -1113,6 +1118,7 @@ P: Jean Delvare
M: [email protected]
L: [email protected]
W: http://www.lm-sensors.nu/
+T: quilt kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/gregkh/gregkh-2.6/
S: Maintained
I2O
@@ -1145,6 +1151,7 @@ P: Tony Luck
M: [email protected]
L: [email protected]
W: http://www.ia64-linux.org/
+T: git kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/aegl/linux-2.6.git
S: Maintained
SN-IA64 (Itanium) SUB-PLATFORM
@@ -1212,6 +1219,7 @@ P: Jody McIntyre
M: [email protected]
L: [email protected]
W: http://www.linux1394.org/
+T: git kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/scjody/ieee1394.git
S: Maintained
IEEE 1394 OHCI DRIVER
@@ -1263,6 +1271,7 @@ P: Hal Rosenstock
M: [email protected]
L: [email protected]
W: http://www.openib.org/
+T: git kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/roland/infiniband.git
S: Supported
INPUT (KEYBOARD, MOUSE, JOYSTICK) DRIVERS
@@ -1436,6 +1445,7 @@ P: Kai Germaschewski
M: [email protected]
P: Sam Ravnborg
M: [email protected]
+T: git kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/sam/kbuild.git
S: Maintained
KERNEL JANITORS
@@ -1782,6 +1792,7 @@ M: [email protected]
P: Jeff Garzik
M: [email protected]
L: [email protected]
+T: git kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/jgarzik/netdev-2.6.git
S: Maintained
NETWORKING [GENERAL]
@@ -1959,6 +1970,7 @@ P: Greg Kroah-Hartman
M: [email protected]
L: [email protected]
L: [email protected]
+T: quilt kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/gregkh/gregkh-2.6/
S: Supported
PCI HOTPLUG CORE
@@ -1980,6 +1992,7 @@ S: Maintained
PCMCIA SUBSYSTEM
P: Linux PCMCIA Team
L: http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-pcmcia
+T: git kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/brodo/pcmcia-2.6.git
S: Maintained
PCNET32 NETWORK DRIVER
@@ -2189,6 +2202,7 @@ SCSI SUBSYSTEM
P: James E.J. Bottomley
M: [email protected]
L: [email protected]
+T: git kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/jejb/scsi-misc-2.6.git
S: Maintained
SCSI TAPE DRIVER
@@ -2228,6 +2242,7 @@ SERIAL ATA (SATA) SUBSYSTEM:
P: Jeff Garzik
M: [email protected]
L: [email protected]
+T: git kernel.org:/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/jgarzik/libata-dev.git
S: Supported
SGI SN-IA64 (Altix) SERIAL CONSOLE DRIVER
@@ -2749,6 +2764,7 @@ M: [email protected]
L: [email protected]
L: [email protected]
W: http://www.linux-usb.org
+T: quilt kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/gregkh/gregkh-2.6/
S: Supported
USB UHCI DRIVER
On Fri, Nov 18, 2005 at 12:40:45AM -0500, Jody McIntyre wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 02:30:58PM -0800, Greg KH wrote:
>
> > I'm not meaning to duplicate anything, as we don't have "location of
> > development git/quilt tree" entry in the MAINTAINERS file. Hm, that
> > does sound like the proper place for such an entry, doesn't it? Anyone
> > want to propose that addition?
>
> Sure :)
>
> BTW Greg, you are not currently listed as an I2C maintainer. Might
> want to fix that :)
That's because I am no longer the I2C maintainer, but still am the
conduit from patches from the current I2C maintainer, to the -mm and
Linus trees. I know of other people in this kind of situation (like the
different network driver stuff.)
thanks,
gregk -h