On Tue, Nov 14, 2006 at 08:23:35PM -0800, Marc Perkel wrote:
> This is the only list I get booted from so that makes
> me think the problem is with the list and not with me.
> It seems that you are also using 12 year old software
> as well. Why not get something modern like Mailman
> like most other lists use and then you don't have to
> be watching the bounces?
>
> The problem is that you are running Majordomo which in
> it's day was great, but is day has passed.
Feel free to start your own maillist. And do whatever the bleeding
fsck you want to do there.
> The bottom line is that you keep booting me off for
> minor problems.
Such as being an obnoxious luser?
> I would think that you should fix it.
FWIW, so do I - and I'm amazed by the mildness of corrective
measures taken so far.
--
What Would Simon Do?
From: Al Viro <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 05:41:24 +0000
> On Tue, Nov 14, 2006 at 08:23:35PM -0800, Marc Perkel wrote:
>
> > The bottom line is that you keep booting me off for
> > minor problems.
>
> Such as being an obnoxious luser?
And now Marc has just successfully gotten Zack Brown also unsubscribed
and on the ban list at vger.kernel.org too. I just got a few
screenfulls of the following. Every linux-kernel posting is
generating this bounce.
------------------------------
Subject: Mail delivery failed : returning message to sender
From: Mail Delivery System <[email protected]>
To: linux-kernel-owner+zbrown=40tumblerings.org-S966586AbWKOFdm@vger.kernel.org
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:45:01 -0800
Auto-Submitted: auto-replied
X-Mew: tab/spc characters on Subject: are simplified.
This message was created automatically by mail delivery software at Junk Email Filter dot com. If this email was rejected in error, please let us know.
The message from Trond Myklebust <[email protected]> was rejected by server bigdog.ctyme.com on Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:45:01 -0800
A message that you sent could not be delivered to all of its recipients.
The following address(es) failed:
[email protected]
(generated from [email protected])
Unrouteable address
On Nov 14 2006 21:50, David Miller wrote:
>
>The following address(es) failed:
>
> [email protected]
> (generated from [email protected])
> Unrouteable address
Can't we just agree that perkel.com's MX is fubared:
12:04 ichi:../packages/SPECS > telnet mx.junkemailfilter.com. 25
Trying 69.50.231.5...
(wait and wait and wait)
-`J'
--
On Wed, Nov 15, 2006 at 05:41:24AM +0000, Al Viro wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 14, 2006 at 08:23:35PM -0800, Marc Perkel wrote:
>
> > This is the only list I get booted from so that makes
> > me think the problem is with the list and not with me.
> > It seems that you are also using 12 year old software
> > as well. Why not get something modern like Mailman
> > like most other lists use and then you don't have to
> > be watching the bounces?
More like 20 years old..
With mailman handling the bounces.. Leaked in spams will
cause subscribers to be dropped right and left, and far
sooner than after 5 days of persistent non-delivery...
> > The problem is that you are running Majordomo which in
> > it's day was great, but is day has passed.
I really have not seen anything better than Majordomo 1.9x.
There are lots of eye-candy and web-candy thingies out there,
but principal task of adding/removing subscribers on list
dataset and delivering messages to those are still the things
that define list management.
With this Majordomo we can define lists that permit incoming
posting only from subscribers, we can even define poster address
datasets that are not subscribers! However for most of our lists
we have chosen to run "posting is open, subject to silent filtering".
Most new beasts want to make email delivery themselves (act as
an MTA) instead of delegating it to an MTA in form which really
is high performance. I did that integration some 10 years ago,
and we haven't had a need to look back.
One incoming-to-list message goes thru Majordomo processing, and
is given out as ONE message to MTA for delivery to 4000+ recipients.
We would need to lot bigger server (-farm) to handle things in
ways that those "send unique message to everybody" piece of junk
list-softwares do it.
/Matti Aarnio -- one of <postmaster at vger.kernel.org>
On Wed, Nov 15, 2006 at 01:10:49PM +0200, Matti Aarnio wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 14, 2006 at 08:23:35PM -0800, Marc Perkel wrote:
> >
> > > This is the only list I get booted from so that makes
> > > me think the problem is with the list and not with me.
> > > It seems that you are also using 12 year old software
> > > as well. Why not get something modern like Mailman
> > > like most other lists use and then you don't have to
> > > be watching the bounces?
>
> More like 20 years old..
>
> With mailman handling the bounces.. Leaked in spams will
> cause subscribers to be dropped right and left, and far
> sooner than after 5 days of persistent non-delivery...
The Mailman suggestion was obviously made by someone that's never
managed a list of any substantial size. Mailman might have lots of
fancy bounce processing stuff, but man, it loves to burn CPU all day
and night working it.
I was once burdened with limping a huge mailman installation along
while the list was moved to a service that was a bit more up to
handling the task. The list was an announce only list for some
celebrity with about 500,000 subscribers. Mailman's bounce processing
happily burned all the CPU that might've gone to actually doing mail
delivery. Messages took weeks to deliver.
While I'm sure that lkml doesn't attract as much crap recipients as a
famous person's announcement, I'm sure it has plenty. I was so happy
when that list went away...
--
Ross Vandegrift
[email protected]
"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who
make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians
have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine
man in the bonds of Hell."
--St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37
On Wed, 15 Nov 2006, Al Viro wrote:
> Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 05:41:24 +0000
> From: Al Viro <[email protected]>
> To: Marc Perkel <[email protected]>
> Cc: David Miller <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Majordomo is an obsolete piece of junk and Kernel should not be
> running it!
>
> On Tue, Nov 14, 2006 at 08:23:35PM -0800, Marc Perkel wrote:
>
> > This is the only list I get booted from so that makes
> > me think the problem is with the list and not with me.
> > It seems that you are also using 12 year old software
> > as well. Why not get something modern like Mailman
> > like most other lists use and then you don't have to
> > be watching the bounces?
> >
> > The problem is that you are running Majordomo which in
> > it's day was great, but is day has passed.
>
> Feel free to start your own maillist. And do whatever the bleeding
> fsck you want to do there.
>
> > The bottom line is that you keep booting me off for
> > minor problems.
>
> Such as being an obnoxious luser?
>
> > I would think that you should fix it.
>
> FWIW, so do I - and I'm amazed by the mildness of corrective
> measures taken so far.
>
I'd just like to point out how very broken your mail server has to be
before ending up dropped from the list. I've been dropped three times
that I can think of off the top of my head. Two were multi day outages of
my mail server and one was a serious misconfig that caused everything to
bounce for sereral hours.
Someone needs to suck it up and fix his mail server.
Gerhard
--
Gerhard Mack
[email protected]
<>< As a computer I find your faith in technology amusing.