On Thu, Mar 04, 2021 at 04:30:34PM +0100, Marco Elver wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 15:57, Mark Rutland <[email protected]> wrote:
> > [adding Mark Brown]
> >
> > The bigger problem here is that skipping is dodgy to begin with, and
> > this is still liable to break in some cases. One big concern is that
> > (especially with LTO) we cannot guarantee the compiler will not inline
> > or outline functions, causing the skipp value to be too large or too
> > small. That's liable to happen to callers, and in theory (though
> > unlikely in practice), portions of arch_stack_walk() or
> > stack_trace_save() could get outlined too.
> >
> > Unless we can get some strong guarantees from compiler folk such that we
> > can guarantee a specific function acts boundary for unwinding (and
> > doesn't itself get split, etc), the only reliable way I can think to
> > solve this requires an assembly trampoline. Whatever we do is liable to
> > need some invasive rework.
>
> Will LTO and friends respect 'noinline'?
I hope so (and suspect we'd have more problems otherwise), but I don't
know whether they actually so.
I suspect even with 'noinline' the compiler is permitted to outline
portions of a function if it wanted to (and IIUC it could still make
specialized copies in the absence of 'noclone').
> One thing I also noticed is that tail calls would also cause the stack
> trace to appear somewhat incomplete (for some of my tests I've
> disabled tail call optimizations).
I assume you mean for a chain A->B->C where B tail-calls C, you get a
trace A->C? ... or is A going missing too?
> Is there a way to also mark a function non-tail-callable?
I think this can be bodged using __attribute__((optimize("$OPTIONS")))
on a caller to inhibit TCO (though IIRC GCC doesn't reliably support
function-local optimization options), but I don't expect there's any way
to mark a callee as not being tail-callable.
Accoding to the GCC documentation, GCC won't TCO noreturn functions, but
obviously that's not something we can use generally.
https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Common-Function-Attributes.html#Common-Function-Attributes
> But I'm also not sure if with all that we'd be guaranteed the code we
> want, even though in practice it might.
True! I'd just like to be on the least dodgy ground we can be.
Thanks,
Mark.
On Thu, Mar 04, 2021 at 04:59PM +0000, Mark Rutland wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 04, 2021 at 04:30:34PM +0100, Marco Elver wrote:
> > On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 15:57, Mark Rutland <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > [adding Mark Brown]
> > >
> > > The bigger problem here is that skipping is dodgy to begin with, and
> > > this is still liable to break in some cases. One big concern is that
> > > (especially with LTO) we cannot guarantee the compiler will not inline
> > > or outline functions, causing the skipp value to be too large or too
> > > small. That's liable to happen to callers, and in theory (though
> > > unlikely in practice), portions of arch_stack_walk() or
> > > stack_trace_save() could get outlined too.
> > >
> > > Unless we can get some strong guarantees from compiler folk such that we
> > > can guarantee a specific function acts boundary for unwinding (and
> > > doesn't itself get split, etc), the only reliable way I can think to
> > > solve this requires an assembly trampoline. Whatever we do is liable to
> > > need some invasive rework.
> >
> > Will LTO and friends respect 'noinline'?
>
> I hope so (and suspect we'd have more problems otherwise), but I don't
> know whether they actually so.
>
> I suspect even with 'noinline' the compiler is permitted to outline
> portions of a function if it wanted to (and IIUC it could still make
> specialized copies in the absence of 'noclone').
>
> > One thing I also noticed is that tail calls would also cause the stack
> > trace to appear somewhat incomplete (for some of my tests I've
> > disabled tail call optimizations).
>
> I assume you mean for a chain A->B->C where B tail-calls C, you get a
> trace A->C? ... or is A going missing too?
Correct, it's just the A->C outcome.
> > Is there a way to also mark a function non-tail-callable?
>
> I think this can be bodged using __attribute__((optimize("$OPTIONS")))
> on a caller to inhibit TCO (though IIRC GCC doesn't reliably support
> function-local optimization options), but I don't expect there's any way
> to mark a callee as not being tail-callable.
I don't think this is reliable. It'd be
__attribute__((optimize("-fno-optimize-sibling-calls"))), but doesn't
work if applied to the function we do not want to tail-call-optimize,
but would have to be applied to the function that does the tail-calling.
So it's a bit backwards, even if it worked.
> Accoding to the GCC documentation, GCC won't TCO noreturn functions, but
> obviously that's not something we can use generally.
>
> https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Common-Function-Attributes.html#Common-Function-Attributes
Perhaps we can ask the toolchain folks to help add such an attribute. Or
maybe the feature already exists somewhere, but hidden.
+Cc [email protected]
> > But I'm also not sure if with all that we'd be guaranteed the code we
> > want, even though in practice it might.
>
> True! I'd just like to be on the least dodgy ground we can be.
It's been dodgy for a while, and I'd welcome any low-cost fixes to make
it less dodgy in the short-term at least. :-)
Thanks,
-- Marco
On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 9:42 AM Marco Elver <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Mar 04, 2021 at 04:59PM +0000, Mark Rutland wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 04, 2021 at 04:30:34PM +0100, Marco Elver wrote:
> > > On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 15:57, Mark Rutland <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > [adding Mark Brown]
> > > >
> > > > The bigger problem here is that skipping is dodgy to begin with, and
> > > > this is still liable to break in some cases. One big concern is that
> > > > (especially with LTO) we cannot guarantee the compiler will not inline
> > > > or outline functions, causing the skipp value to be too large or too
> > > > small. That's liable to happen to callers, and in theory (though
> > > > unlikely in practice), portions of arch_stack_walk() or
> > > > stack_trace_save() could get outlined too.
> > > >
> > > > Unless we can get some strong guarantees from compiler folk such that we
> > > > can guarantee a specific function acts boundary for unwinding (and
> > > > doesn't itself get split, etc), the only reliable way I can think to
> > > > solve this requires an assembly trampoline. Whatever we do is liable to
> > > > need some invasive rework.
> > >
> > > Will LTO and friends respect 'noinline'?
> >
> > I hope so (and suspect we'd have more problems otherwise), but I don't
> > know whether they actually so.
> >
> > I suspect even with 'noinline' the compiler is permitted to outline
> > portions of a function if it wanted to (and IIUC it could still make
> > specialized copies in the absence of 'noclone').
> >
> > > One thing I also noticed is that tail calls would also cause the stack
> > > trace to appear somewhat incomplete (for some of my tests I've
> > > disabled tail call optimizations).
> >
> > I assume you mean for a chain A->B->C where B tail-calls C, you get a
> > trace A->C? ... or is A going missing too?
>
> Correct, it's just the A->C outcome.
>
> > > Is there a way to also mark a function non-tail-callable?
> >
> > I think this can be bodged using __attribute__((optimize("$OPTIONS")))
> > on a caller to inhibit TCO (though IIRC GCC doesn't reliably support
> > function-local optimization options), but I don't expect there's any way
> > to mark a callee as not being tail-callable.
>
> I don't think this is reliable. It'd be
> __attribute__((optimize("-fno-optimize-sibling-calls"))), but doesn't
> work if applied to the function we do not want to tail-call-optimize,
> but would have to be applied to the function that does the tail-calling.
> So it's a bit backwards, even if it worked.
>
> > Accoding to the GCC documentation, GCC won't TCO noreturn functions, but
> > obviously that's not something we can use generally.
> >
> > https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Common-Function-Attributes.html#Common-Function-Attributes
include/linux/compiler.h:246:
prevent_tail_call_optimization
commit a9a3ed1eff36 ("x86: Fix early boot crash on gcc-10, third try")
>
> Perhaps we can ask the toolchain folks to help add such an attribute. Or
> maybe the feature already exists somewhere, but hidden.
>
> +Cc [email protected]
>
> > > But I'm also not sure if with all that we'd be guaranteed the code we
> > > want, even though in practice it might.
> >
> > True! I'd just like to be on the least dodgy ground we can be.
>
> It's been dodgy for a while, and I'd welcome any low-cost fixes to make
> it less dodgy in the short-term at least. :-)
>
> Thanks,
> -- Marco
--
Thanks,
~Nick Desaulniers