Hi folks,
It's time to start kicking off the 2007 Kernel Summit planning
process. This year, the Kernel Summit will be held in Cambridge,
England, at the DeVere University Arms Hotel, September 5-6 (with a
welcome reception on the 4th). The decision to move the Kernel Summit
to England is a one-year experiment based on the very strong request of
last year's kernel summit attendees to try a location outside of Ottawa,
and especially from the roughly 1/3rd of the attendees that come from
the UK or Europe. So the plan is for us to book the Ottawa Congress
Ceter space for July 2008 (which we will need to do by mid-year 2007),
and pending how well the Cambridge venue works out in September 2007,
we'll figure out how often we want to try moving the Kernel Summit to
other locations in future years beyond 2008.
(It'd be great to fantasize pairing the Kernel Summit with
Linux.conf.au, but unless we can get some sponsor's CEO offers up their
personal jet, or we pick up a major airline as a sponsor, it's not
likely to happen any time soon due to the reality of corporate travel
budgets. :-)
As in previous years, I've set up a e-mail discussion list for people
who are interested in making suggestions for this year's kernel summit.
In the probably hopeless attempt to avoid the list address getting
instantly harvested by spammers from all of the LKML archives, the list
submission address and subscription URL can be found by executing the
following perl script:
#!/usr/bin/perl
$at="@";
$AD=(gmtime(time))[5]+1900;
print "ksummit-" . $AD . "-discuss" . $at . "thunk.org\n";
print "http://thunk.org/mailman/listinfo/ksummit-" . $AD . "-discuss\n";
More announcements about the topic and attendee selection process will
be made in the next week or so on the discuss list, but in the meantime,
if there are any folks who are interested in putting together
mini-summits or workshops for various kernel subsystems at Ottawa on the
25th or 26th, please let me know. It may be possible for Usenix to make
some hotel conference rooms available, to provide an opportunity for
kernel development teams who want to get together before OLS and the
Kernel Summit to do so.
Finally, let me introduce to this year's program committee:
Jens Axboe
James Bottomley
Jonathon Corbet
Dirk Hohndel
Gerrit Huizenga
Dave Jones
Andi Kleen
Greg Kroah-Hartman
Steve Hemminger
Matthew Mackall
Andrew Morton
Theodore Ts'o
If you have any questions, please feel to contact me or the entire
kernel summit program committee. Our contact e-mail address can be
found by taking the output from the above perl script and running it
through the command: "sed -e 's/discuss/pc/'".
Regards,
- Ted
On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 02:09:17AM -0500, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> It's time to start kicking off the 2007 Kernel Summit planning
> process. This year, the Kernel Summit will be held in Cambridge,
> England, at the DeVere University Arms Hotel, September 5-6 (with a
> welcome reception on the 4th). The decision to move the Kernel Summit
> to England is a one-year experiment based on the very strong request of
> last year's kernel summit attendees to try a location outside of Ottawa,
> and especially from the roughly 1/3rd of the attendees that come from
> the UK or Europe. So the plan is for us to book the Ottawa Congress
> Ceter space for July 2008 (which we will need to do by mid-year 2007),
Very strong please no from me. Please move it around to different
venues, if needed in north america again. kernel summit shouldn't
be a marketing add-on but something on it's own.
While we're at it it would be nice to get rid of all that usenix
and sponsors that get a seat baggage aswell, especially as we've
proven that all small on-topic conferences without that overhead
are a lot more productive.
On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 12:07:11PM +0100, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> > process. This year, the Kernel Summit will be held in Cambridge,
> > England, at the DeVere University Arms Hotel, September 5-6 (with a
> > welcome reception on the 4th). The decision to move the Kernel Summit
> > to England is a one-year experiment based on the very strong request of
> > last year's kernel summit attendees to try a location outside of Ottawa,
> > and especially from the roughly 1/3rd of the attendees that come from
> > the UK or Europe. So the plan is for us to book the Ottawa Congress
> > Ceter space for July 2008 (which we will need to do by mid-year 2007),
Ditto..
Definitely disagree with that. I'd like to see the conference somewhere
else different this time - perhaps Czech Republic, or somewhere else more
easterly and Linux active (or even Finland...)
> While we're at it it would be nice to get rid of all that usenix
Well if you want to organise and fund it yourself 8)
On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 07:45:02AM -0500, Alan Cox wrote:
>
> Definitely disagree with that. I'd like to see the conference somewhere
> else different this time - perhaps Czech Republic, or somewhere else more
> easterly and Linux active (or even Finland...)
>
Understand that one of the feedback that I get from the keepers of the
corporate travel budgets is that money for sending employees to exotic
locations is finite --- which is why we haven't tried pairing the
kernel summit with linux.conf.au. Cambridge works out because there
are relatively cheap flights to Amsterdam and then you can take a
cheap Ryan Air flight to Stanisted. Still, the fact that it isn't
paired with another conference means that we are getting some
expressions of unhappiness from other Kernel Summit stakeholders.
It's for that reason that (a) I'm trying to line up some folks who
might be interested in trying to put together a relatively small,
2-day technical conference after the Kernel Summit, which can
hopefully serve as a seed for something like OLS and LCA in UK/Europe,
and (b) I've told folks that the moving it away from Cambridge is a
one-time experiment, after which point we will re-evaluate.
I understand that if it were only up to us developers, we'd want to
have the conference in Honolulu, or perhaps in Australia or New
Zeland. Unfortunately there are other stakeholers and other financial
realities involved.
> > While we're at it it would be nice to get rid of all that usenix
>
> Well if you want to organise and fund it yourself 8)
The sponsors help pay for the conference venue, as well as travel
scholoarships for those people who don't have corporate affiliations,
or whose companies refuse to pay their travel, and who were important
that they be there. One of my concerns is if we have too many kernel
developers where their employes refuse to pay travel, we won't have
enough travel scholoarship money.
It's a somewhat tricky balancing act.
- Ted
> hopefully serve as a seed for something like OLS and LCA in UK/Europe,
> and (b) I've told folks that the moving it away from Cambridge is a
> one-time experiment, after which point we will re-evaluate.
Perhaps that will work out for the best, it may be the right answer long
term is to alternate anyway ?
Hi,
On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 08:14:17AM -0500, Theodore Tso wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 07:45:02AM -0500, Alan Cox wrote:
> >
> > Definitely disagree with that. I'd like to see the conference somewhere
> > else different this time - perhaps Czech Republic, or somewhere else more
> > easterly and Linux active (or even Finland...)
> >
>
> Understand that one of the feedback that I get from the keepers of the
> corporate travel budgets is that money for sending employees to exotic
> locations is finite --- which is why we haven't tried pairing the
> kernel summit with linux.conf.au. Cambridge works out because there
> are relatively cheap flights to Amsterdam and then you can take a
> cheap Ryan Air flight to Stanisted. Still, the fact that it isn't
> paired with another conference means that we are getting some
> expressions of unhappiness from other Kernel Summit stakeholders.
> It's for that reason that (a) I'm trying to line up some folks who
> might be interested in trying to put together a relatively small,
> 2-day technical conference after the Kernel Summit, which can
> hopefully serve as a seed for something like OLS and LCA in UK/Europe,
> and (b) I've told folks that the moving it away from Cambridge is a
> one-time experiment, after which point we will re-evaluate.
>
Wrt, point (a), UKUUG are moving their UK based Summer Linux conference
to coincide timewise with the kernel summit. Normally its in the July/August
time frame. Location probably, but last I heard from Alasdair Kergon not
certain to be, in Cambridge,
Steve.
Theodore Tso wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 07:45:02AM -0500, Alan Cox wrote:
>> Definitely disagree with that. I'd like to see the conference somewhere
>> else different this time - perhaps Czech Republic, or somewhere else more
>> easterly and Linux active (or even Finland...)
>>
>
> Understand that one of the feedback that I get from the keepers of the
> corporate travel budgets is that money for sending employees to exotic
> locations is finite
So we need to find locations where the increased price of the
plane ticket is cancelled out by lower hotel rates? :)
--
Politics is the struggle between those who want to make their country
the best in the world, and those who believe it already is. Each group
calls the other unpatriotic.
From: Alan Cox <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 07:45:02 -0500
> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 12:07:11PM +0100, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> > > process. This year, the Kernel Summit will be held in Cambridge,
> > > England, at the DeVere University Arms Hotel, September 5-6 (with a
> > > welcome reception on the 4th). The decision to move the Kernel Summit
> > > to England is a one-year experiment based on the very strong request of
> > > last year's kernel summit attendees to try a location outside of Ottawa,
> > > and especially from the roughly 1/3rd of the attendees that come from
> > > the UK or Europe. So the plan is for us to book the Ottawa Congress
> > > Ceter space for July 2008 (which we will need to do by mid-year 2007),
>
> Ditto..
>
> Definitely disagree with that. I'd like to see the conference somewhere
> else different this time - perhaps Czech Republic, or somewhere else more
> easterly and Linux active (or even Finland...)
This is my position as well.
If the kernel summit is important enough, all the bean counters will
find a way to get their constituents to the event, it's as simple as
that.
For the first time in many years I'm strongly considering actually
going to the kernel summit, however if it goes back to Ottawa I
definitely will stop going again.
In gmane.linux.kernel, David Miller wrote:
> From: Alan Cox <[email protected]>
> Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 07:45:02 -0500
>
>> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 12:07:11PM +0100, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
>> > > process. This year, the Kernel Summit will be held in Cambridge,
>> > > England, at the DeVere University Arms Hotel, September 5-6 (with a
>> > > welcome reception on the 4th). The decision to move the Kernel Summit
>> > > to England is a one-year experiment based on the very strong request of
>> > > last year's kernel summit attendees to try a location outside of Ottawa,
>> > > and especially from the roughly 1/3rd of the attendees that come from
>> > > the UK or Europe. So the plan is for us to book the Ottawa Congress
>> > > Ceter space for July 2008 (which we will need to do by mid-year 2007),
>>
>> Ditto..
>>
>> Definitely disagree with that. I'd like to see the conference somewhere
else different this time - perhaps *Czech Republic*, or somewhere else more
>> easterly and Linux active (or even Finland...)
>
> This is my position as well.
[]
> For the first time in many years I'm strongly considering actually
> going to the kernel summit, however if it goes back to Ottawa I
> definitely will stop going again.
It would be interesting. Thank you Alan, David!
;D
____
On 1/22/07, Alan Cox <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Ditto..
>
> Definitely disagree with that. I'd like to see the conference somewhere
> else different this time - perhaps Czech Republic, or somewhere else more
> easterly and Linux active (or even Finland...)
>
> > While we're at it it would be nice to get rid of all that usenix
>
> Well if you want to organise and fund it yourself 8)
>
Alan, why don't be India's turn this time? Linux is popular and active
here too. And you too saw this at 2005 (FOSS.in). Richard Stallman saw
too. Many of us contribute for Linux (My company is the largest
contributor to Linux globally, plus have exclusive Labs for
Linux....others like HP, Intel are present here and doing good work on
Linux).
If Kernel community comes down to India...this would have a big impact
on the community + industry too. I wish to see Linux takes atleast 40%
of Desktops here by 2010.
And, in this way my president's dream would take off in a big way ;-)
http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=35147
http://www.ciol.com/content/developer/Linux/2004/104102101.asp
Any other reasons am missing here?
Thanks,
~Akula2
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007, Sunil Naidu wrote:
> If Kernel community comes down to India...this would have a big impact
> on the community + industry too.
I think it's a good idea.
> Any other reasons am missing here?
Cost of flying 70 mainly US/European developers to India.
- James
--
James Morris
<[email protected]>
On 1/23/07, James Morris <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Jan 2007, Sunil Naidu wrote:
>
> > If Kernel community comes down to India...this would have a big impact
> > on the community + industry too.
>
> I think it's a good idea.
>
> > Any other reasons am missing here?
>
> Cost of flying 70 mainly US/European developers to India.
You have to remember that the Kernel Summit is invite only. Holding
the summit at a location doesn't really mean it's open to anyone
there.
josh
On 1/24/07, Josh Boyer <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Any other reasons am missing here?
> >
> > Cost of flying 70 mainly US/European developers to India.
Thanks James. I thought about this factor. Thinking about what are the
factors which make a Kernel developer to show interest on a particular
location.
> You have to remember that the Kernel Summit is invite only. Holding
> the summit at a location doesn't really mean it's open to anyone
> there.
Defnitely this could be held on invite only. Many Top forums happen in
India in this fashion. This initiatives itself would be like a booster
in a Rocket which gives *huge* impact.
I do strongly feel this would be a big push to Linux among community
(apart from corporates). Plus, a message sender too ;-) We can debate
on this...
> josh
Thanks,
~Akula2
On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 04:41:39AM +0530, Sunil Naidu wrote:
> >You have to remember that the Kernel Summit is invite only. Holding
> >the summit at a location doesn't really mean it's open to anyone
> >there.
>
> Defnitely this could be held on invite only. Many Top forums happen in
> India in this fashion. This initiatives itself would be like a booster
> in a Rocket which gives *huge* impact.
Presumably the way to do this would be to have a large conference
(such as OLS) after the kernel summit. Hopefully most kernel summit
attendees would stick around for 2-3 days afterwards for the technical
conference.
The problem is that the value of the kernel summit is that we get the
> 90% of the key, "right" people there so we can have face-to-face
conversations. There reason why I started organizing it years ago was
that I hoped that if key developers had a chance to meet with each
other at least once a year, it would help them more productively
communicate with each other via e-mail the rest of the year. I think
it has succeeded in that goal quite well. The problem though is that
most people can't afford to fly to India or Australia, and their
employers' travel budgets won't allow that either --- and the value of
the K-S is based on getting as many of the key kernel developers in
one place as possible.
Two years ago, maddog tried to convince me that Brazil would be a
perfect place to hold a kernel summit, and that the Brazillian
government was 100% behind linux, and could provide a wonderful
location, yadda, yadda, yadda. What I told him was that the only way
I could imagine it working would be if the Brazillian government was
willing to pay travel costs for all 80+ kernel summit attendees to fly
from whatever their home airport to Brazil. That way, we don't have
to deal with the pushback from corporate travel budget keepers for
having to pay $$$ for travel to places around the world. When I told
maddog that, presumably he went back to his Brazillian contacts and we
never heard back from him about moving the kernel summit to Brazil again. :-)
I would suspect it would be a similar issue with India. I'd love to
have the opportunity to visit Bangalore (or should I say Bengaluru? :-).
I also know that it's extremely unlikely that my employer would agree
to pay for me to fly there, not to mention all of the other folks that
would need to go to the K-S. But hey, if you think that there are
organizations in India who would be willing to pay travel for _all_ of
the K-S attendees (preferably business class travel :-), let's
talk....
- Ted
On 1/24/07, Theodore Tso <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Presumably the way to do this would be to have a large conference
> (such as OLS) after the kernel summit. Hopefully most kernel summit
> attendees would stick around for 2-3 days afterwards for the technical
> conference.
This is a good idea ;-) There is a FOSS held in India every year, can
we consider to make use of this venue? Pl have a look:-
http://foss.in/2006/
> The problem is that the value of the kernel summit is that we get the
> > 90% of the key, "right" people there so we can have face-to-face
> conversations. There reason why I started organizing it years ago was
> that I hoped that if key developers had a chance to meet with each
> other at least once a year, it would help them more productively
> communicate with each other via e-mail the rest of the year. I think
> it has succeeded in that goal quite well. The problem though is that
> most people can't afford to fly to India or Australia, and their
> employers' travel budgets won't allow that either --- and the value of
> the K-S is based on getting as many of the key kernel developers in
> one place as possible.
I do fully agree with you on this. It should be a quality time with
atleast 90% key people.
> Two years ago, maddog tried to convince me that Brazil would be a
> perfect place to hold a kernel summit, and that the Brazillian
> government was 100% behind linux, and could provide a wonderful
> location, yadda, yadda, yadda. What I told him was that the only way
> I could imagine it working would be if the Brazillian government was
> willing to pay travel costs for all 80+ kernel summit attendees to fly
> from whatever their home airport to Brazil. That way, we don't have
> to deal with the pushback from corporate travel budget keepers for
> having to pay $$$ for travel to places around the world. When I told
> maddog that, presumably he went back to his Brazillian contacts and we
> never heard back from him about moving the kernel summit to Brazil again. :-)
I really doubt whether any Government pays for a Kernel Summit (they
will have their own reasons or whatever). Maddog might have felt same
like me - huge potential of Linux lies with in B-R-I-C nations, hence
we need to stir up more for the movement to catch up (KS would be
perfect for this). This initiative would also pays the way for making
the dream of a competing Linux Desktop turning into a reality.
I am not saying any other nation is less significant, history of Linux
is the proof for that. All am wishing is, let's make something more or
do more good for our Penguin ;-)
> I would suspect it would be a similar issue with India. I'd love to
> have the opportunity to visit Bangalore (or should I say Bengaluru? :-).
> I also know that it's extremely unlikely that my employer would agree
> to pay for me to fly there, not to mention all of the other folks that
> would need to go to the K-S. But hey, if you think that there are
> organizations in India who would be willing to pay travel for _all_ of
> the K-S attendees (preferably business class travel :-), let's
> talk....
Earlier it was Bangalore, it's now Bengaluru. Linux is also happening
in other places here in India like Hyderabad, Pune, Gurgoan, etc
(these cities has IT power houses).
I do not know about other organizations much. I shall put this with my
bosses in my Labs first, this would be involving my company itself .
Also, shall explore with my peers (other orgnizations like FOSS). What
is the deadline to decide about the location? Believe me, my wish is
so high...I wanted to sponsor for u guys (can bear a dozen)...but not
so many as 80 ;-)
[OT] I read as key kernel developers as some 440 members. Is this for
2.4.x or what? I am confused with the figure 80 ?? KS would have
Linus, Alan, Andrew, Ingo, and others?
> - Ted
Thanks,
~Akula2
On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 02:09 -0500, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> It's time to start kicking off the 2007 Kernel Summit planning
> process. This year, the Kernel Summit will be held in Cambridge,
> England, at the DeVere University Arms Hotel, September 5-6 (with a
> welcome reception on the 4th).
BTW. While I'm all about it, this KS in Cambridge, I just got told,
pretty much collides with the Rugby World Cup in France which starts on
the 7th. While not as bad as the soccer one, that still means that air
fares to europe might skyrocket around those dates :-(
Ben.
On 1/23/07 9:57 AM, "David Miller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Definitely disagree with that. I'd like to see the conference somewhere
>> else different this time - perhaps Czech Republic, or somewhere else more
>> easterly and Linux active (or even Finland...)
>
> This is my position as well.
>
> If the kernel summit is important enough, all the bean counters will
> find a way to get their constituents to the event, it's as simple as
> that.
Actually, it isn't.
Within the Northern Hemisphere and with locations that are reasonably
cheaply to reach from most of Europe and North America, yes, at the end of
the day people will be able to come.
We seem to have two different types of motivation for proposed locations in
this discussion. Some of us are looking for a convenient location. Some of
us are proposing locations as a political statement. I believe the latter
isn't a good idea. The kernel summit is by invitation only. It therefore is
a very bad forum to bring Linux to a place.
Add to that that locations like Brazil or India will add thousands of
dollars of cost per person and add much more problems with jet lag for many
people I think they'll be very hard to justify.
> For the first time in many years I'm strongly considering actually
> going to the kernel summit, however if it goes back to Ottawa I
> definitely will stop going again.
Is that specific to Ottawa, or is this any North American location? I
strongly believe that it's a good idea to alternate between locations in
North America and Europe. That's were most of the attendees live. Just as it
was a bad idea to keep it in North America all the time, it would be a bad
idea to keep it in Europe.
/D
On Tue, Jan 23, 2007 at 07:18:46PM +0000, Oleg Verych wrote:
> >> Ditto..
> >>
> >> Definitely disagree with that. I'd like to see the conference somewhere
> >> else different this time - perhaps *Czech Republic*, or somewhere else more
> >> easterly and Linux active (or even Finland...)
> >
> > This is my position as well.
> >
> > For the first time in many years I'm strongly considering actually
> > going to the kernel summit, however if it goes back to Ottawa I
> > definitely will stop going again.
>
> It would be interesting. Thank you Alan, David!
I (and SUSE/Novell) would be happy to help organizing the Kernel Summit
in Czech Republic.
--
Vojtech Pavlik
Director SuSE Labs
From: Dirk Hohndel <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 06:22:54 -0800
> > For the first time in many years I'm strongly considering actually
> > going to the kernel summit, however if it goes back to Ottawa I
> > definitely will stop going again.
>
> Is that specific to Ottawa, or is this any North American location?
It's about repetitiveness and what that does to human beings.
As someone who organizes a yearly Linux kernel conference for all the
networking folks, I can proudly say we haven't gone to the same
location more than one time. I believe that is critical to keep the
repetitiveness out of a conference.
We've held netconf in Japan, Montreal, Portland, and this year will
likely be Europe. People found a way to make it and we found
sufficient sponsorship for all attendees who needed monetary travel
assistence every time. This is why I don't buy the funding argument
at all. People who want to come and have the desire, will find a way.
Conferences who think attendance is important, will find a way to
provide sponsorship for travel when needed.
It's too damn repetitive to go to the same location over and over.
Why do you think LCA tries to go to a different city every year and
even let "foreigners" run the show last year in New Zealand? :-)
Nobody want to go to the same place twice if they have to travel
at all.
As an added bonus, we can hand off the conference organizing to
different folks in the local location each year. That will also add
some new life and excitement to kernel summit, have different people
chair, organize, and run the conference. If you use the same people,
just like using the same venue, the thing gets stale, and the kernel
summit is extremely stale at the moment.
That's what I'm against, going to the same location over and over. It
makes the event more like a chore than something to look forward to
and enjoy.
On 1/25/07 12:51 PM, "David Miller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> For the first time in many years I'm strongly considering actually
>>> going to the kernel summit, however if it goes back to Ottawa I
>>> definitely will stop going again.
>>
>> Is that specific to Ottawa, or is this any North American location?
>
> It's about repetitiveness and what that does to human beings.
>
> It's too damn repetitive to go to the same location over and over.
I fully agree with that. And I certainly hope that LKS will change location
every year (and I am the last person who pushes for it to return to Ottawa -
I'd like to see it come back to North America and maybe have it alternate
between continents, though).
So how about Vancouver, B.C. for 08 and Praha, CZ for 09?
/D
From: Dirk Hohndel <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 12:59:12 -0800
> So how about Vancouver, B.C. for 08 and Praha, CZ for 09?
That's fine especially since I can drive to Vancouver :-)
> From: Dirk Hohndel <[email protected]>
> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 06:22:54 -0800
>
> We've held netconf in Japan, Montreal, Portland, and this year will
> likely be Europe. People found a way to make it and we found
> sufficient sponsorship for all attendees who needed monetary travel
> assistence every time. This is why I don't buy the funding argument
> at all. People who want to come and have the desire, will find a way.
> Conferences who think attendance is important, will find a way to
> provide sponsorship for travel when needed.
Good thoughts ;-) I too believe in this - Where there is a Will,
there is a Way! That's the reason why I have proposed India as the
location for KS 2007, am still awaiting for the response from Theodore
Tso.
But, funding or drag or time zone could be genuine reasons for many
because of the Geographical factors. Again, this shouldn't deter I
feel...Else, we have to wait for KS 2008 or 2009 ;-)
[OT] Dirk, I did attend Intel Developer Forum 2006 by paying $70
because I wanted to!
~Akula2
On Fri, Jan 26, 2007 at 06:16:13AM +0530, Sunil Naidu wrote:
> Good thoughts ;-) I too believe in this - Where there is a Will,
> there is a Way! That's the reason why I have proposed India as the
> location for KS 2007, am still awaiting for the response from Theodore
> Tso.
I did give you a response. Find a way to pay for 80+ kernel summit
invitees to travel to India (preferably in business class :-), and
we'll talk. That's not realistic? Well, then perhaps having the
concept of holding Kernel Summit in India is not realistic.
As Dirk has pointed out, the Kernel Summit is a little unusual
compared to events such as FOSDEM or FISL, where there are 4000-5000
attendees, and the emphasis is on the power of a large number of
people in the OSS community. The Kernel Summit is a very different
event, in that it is by-invitation with less than 100 people. The
whole point is to get the top contributors together to be able to talk
amongst themselves in a high bandwidth environment. You can't do that
amongst a crowd of 800, never mind 2000 or 4000.
So the only reason why any organization would be willing to pay so
that top contributors would come to some country like India would be
if to attract visibility and excitement to some big conference or
other big OSS/Linux initiative that happened right after the kernel
summit. But quite frankly, I personally wouldn't consider it a wise
use of money; it would cost a heck of a lot of money and there are
plenty of other, more cost effective ways to promote a big OSS
conference in India.
And if there's no business case for the Indian government or some
local Indian companies to pay to fly all of the KS attendees to India,
why in the world do you think that companies like HP, Intel, IBM, Red
Hat, Novell, etc. will pay for their employees to travel to the Kernel
Summit? They don't have even less of the incentive than the local
Indian companies/government to do so! Maybe during the dot-com
madness of the late 1990's, when people spent money like crazy on
things that made no business sense whatsoever, but those days are long
gone. Money doesn't grow on trees any more, if it ever did.
The main reason why we are trying a one-year experiment in Cambridge
is because approximately 1/3rd of the KS attendees are from Europe.
At the moment I believe we have exactly one person from India, who has
been selected through her own merit, to attend the Kernel Summit. So
does it make sense to fly everyone else to India? It doesn't seem so
to me!
So the real answer to how do get the Kernel Summit to happen in India?
Bring a very large number of developers together in India. Get them
to work really hard, encourage them to participate on LKML, and
produce lots of useful patches. Eventually, some of them will do
enough good work that they will be recognized as maintainers of key
subsystems. When there are 25-30+ people from India who have done
enough for the Linux kernel community and risen to be recognized as
top contributors in the Linux world such that they are invited to the
Kernel Summit on their own merits, I'm sure there a Kernel Summit in
India would very quickly follow.
Still, if someone wants to pay a vast quantity of money to pay travel
for all so that the KS can be held in some exotic location (especially
if it's Waikiki beach, or Aspen Colorado during the skiing season),
I'm sure people will be willing to listen. But realistically, it just
doesn't make sense, so it's not likely someone would make us such an
offer. (Unless perhaps in some conspiracy theory scenario where
Microsoft pays $$$ to some VC company to sponsor an event in Moskow,
and then contracts out to the KGB to fill the meeting room with an
aerosolized powder of Polonium 210 to kill off all of the top Linux
developers in one fell swoop. But that sort of thing only happens in
spy novels. :-)
Regards,
- Ted
On 1/25/07, Theodore Tso <[email protected]> wrote:
(Unless perhaps in some conspiracy theory scenario where
> Microsoft pays $$$ to some VC company to sponsor an event in Moskow,
> and then contracts out to the KGB to fill the meeting room with an
> aerosolized powder of Polonium 210 to kill off all of the top Linux
> developers in one fell swoop. But that sort of thing only happens in
> spy novels. :-)
And if it did, we would be sad to be sure. But source code never dies ;)
josh
On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 10:28:49PM -0500, Theodore Tso wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 26, 2007 at 06:16:13AM +0530, Sunil Naidu wrote:
> > Good thoughts ;-) I too believe in this - Where there is a Will,
> > there is a Way! That's the reason why I have proposed India as the
> > location for KS 2007, am still awaiting for the response from Theodore
> > Tso.
>
> I did give you a response. Find a way to pay for 80+ kernel summit
> invitees to travel to India (preferably in business class :-), and
> we'll talk. That's not realistic? Well, then perhaps having the
> concept of holding Kernel Summit in India is not realistic.
Does this mean that the attendees of the 2007 summit in England all get
business class tickets to travel to it?
Sounds good to me!
thanks,
greg k-h
From: Greg KH <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:17:56 -0800
> On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 10:28:49PM -0500, Theodore Tso wrote:
> > On Fri, Jan 26, 2007 at 06:16:13AM +0530, Sunil Naidu wrote:
> > > Good thoughts ;-) I too believe in this - Where there is a Will,
> > > there is a Way! That's the reason why I have proposed India as the
> > > location for KS 2007, am still awaiting for the response from Theodore
> > > Tso.
> >
> > I did give you a response. Find a way to pay for 80+ kernel summit
> > invitees to travel to India (preferably in business class :-), and
> > we'll talk. That's not realistic? Well, then perhaps having the
> > concept of holding Kernel Summit in India is not realistic.
>
> Does this mean that the attendees of the 2007 summit in England all get
> business class tickets to travel to it?
>
> Sounds good to me!
Yeah, it seems like Ted is using unfair apples-to-oranges comparisons
here.
People all went to Australia mostly in cattle class just fine. Just
put an extra day on one side to recover from jet lag, you don't need
business class to accomplish that.
Em Qui, 2007-01-25 ?s 12:51 -0800, David Miller escreveu:
> From: Dirk Hohndel <[email protected]>
> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 06:22:54 -0800
>
> It's too damn repetitive to go to the same location over and over.
> Why do you think LCA tries to go to a different city every year and
> even let "foreigners" run the show last year in New Zealand? :-)
> Nobody want to go to the same place twice if they have to travel
> at all.
>
> As an added bonus, we can hand off the conference organizing to
> different folks in the local location each year. That will also add
> some new life and excitement to kernel summit, have different people
> chair, organize, and run the conference. If you use the same people,
> just like using the same venue, the thing gets stale, and the kernel
> summit is extremely stale at the moment.
>
> That's what I'm against, going to the same location over and over. It
> makes the event more like a chore than something to look forward to
> and enjoy.
If the conference would be hold in Brazil, I may help having local
support.
The company I work hold last year an ETSI internal meeting about IMS in
Bras?lia. It were a very interesting experience. The meeting were closed
to ETSI members and some people invited. After the meeting, there were
two days of an open event.
It should be noticed that about 99.9% of the attendants came from
Europe, with travelling costs covered by their companies. The Brazilian
company organized the event and covered some local costs (like
lunch/dinner/cocktail/event hostage).
Probably, the major companies with worldwide presence will cover
travelling costs, whatever place KS would be hold, since the local
offices of those companies will have interests on holding the
conference.
Just my $2 cents.
Cheers,
Mauro.
On Fri, Jan 26, 2007 at 10:23:40AM -0200, Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote:
> From: Mauro Carvalho Chehab <[email protected]>
> To: David Miller <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15
> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:23:40 -0200
> Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2006-discuss] 2007 Linux Kernel Summit
> Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
>
> Em Qui, 2007-01-25 ?s 12:51 -0800, David Miller escreveu:
> > From: Dirk Hohndel <[email protected]>
> > Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 06:22:54 -0800
> >
>
> > It's too damn repetitive to go to the same location over and over.
> > Why do you think LCA tries to go to a different city every year and
> > even let "foreigners" run the show last year in New Zealand? :-)
> > Nobody want to go to the same place twice if they have to travel
> > at all.
> >
> > As an added bonus, we can hand off the conference organizing to
> > different folks in the local location each year. That will also add
> > some new life and excitement to kernel summit, have different people
> > chair, organize, and run the conference. If you use the same people,
> > just like using the same venue, the thing gets stale, and the kernel
> > summit is extremely stale at the moment.
> >
> > That's what I'm against, going to the same location over and over. It
> > makes the event more like a chore than something to look forward to
> > and enjoy.
> If the conference would be hold in Brazil, I may help having local
> support.
>
> The company I work hold last year an ETSI internal meeting about IMS in
> Bras?lia. It were a very interesting experience. The meeting were closed
> to ETSI members and some people invited. After the meeting, there were
> two days of an open event.
>
> It should be noticed that about 99.9% of the attendants came from
> Europe, with travelling costs covered by their companies. The Brazilian
> company organized the event and covered some local costs (like
> lunch/dinner/cocktail/event hostage).
>
> Probably, the major companies with worldwide presence will cover
> travelling costs, whatever place KS would be hold, since the local
> offices of those companies will have interests on holding the
> conference.
>
> Just my $2 cents.
And since the cost of travel keeps being raised - in the past my tickets
to Brazil (To Curitiba which from either Zuerich or Frankfurt had exactly
same price) were typically 10-20% less than a ticket to the US west coast
and well below the cost of getting to Ottawa. Cost for food, a bus or
similar is often virtually free comparing to Cambridge.
I see no problem in convincing my emplyer of traveling to any destination
in the world as long as the trip doesn't have the character of an
entertainment and the total cost is in relation to the importance of the
trip.
Ralf
> And since the cost of travel keeps being raised - in the past my tickets
> to Brazil (To Curitiba which from either Zuerich or Frankfurt had exactly
> same price) were typically 10-20% less than a ticket to the US west coast
> and well below the cost of getting to Ottawa. Cost for food, a bus or
> similar is often virtually free comparing to Cambridge.
Ditto my experience because there are monopolies on most of the flight
routes to Ottawa. Indeed if I remember the numbers on the ticket roughly
right it wasn't much different to .AU and more than Bangalore.
Alan
On 1/26/07, Theodore Tso <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I did give you a response. Find a way to pay for 80+ kernel summit
> invitees to travel to India (preferably in business class :-), and
> we'll talk. That's not realistic? Well, then perhaps having the
> concept of holding Kernel Summit in India is not realistic.
I did reply to you for your response on Jan 24th. I did ask in that -
when is the deadline date to decide about the location?
> As Dirk has pointed out, the Kernel Summit is a little unusual
> compared to events such as FOSDEM or FISL, where there are 4000-5000
> attendees, and the emphasis is on the power of a large number of
> people in the OSS community. The Kernel Summit is a very different
> event, in that it is by-invitation with less than 100 people. The
> whole point is to get the top contributors together to be able to talk
> amongst themselves in a high bandwidth environment. You can't do that
> amongst a crowd of 800, never mind 2000 or 4000.
I do understand this & the objectives of the KS. I did mean whether is
it possible FOSS.in could be used or not after KS (you've said Kernel
developers would stick for 2-3 days in the location. Once the KS is
over, developers can take the stage of FOSS.in to interact with people
or hold a talk or whatever. I didn't put this point clearly, my
mistake.
> So the only reason why any organization would be willing to pay so
> that top contributors would come to some country like India would be
> if to attract visibility and excitement to some big conference or
> other big OSS/Linux initiative that happened right after the kernel
> summit. But quite frankly, I personally wouldn't consider it a wise
> use of money; it would cost a heck of a lot of money and there are
> plenty of other, more cost effective ways to promote a big OSS
> conference in India.
I didn't understand your statement - some country like India! MIT has
Media Labs Asia in India. MIT selected India for the $100 Linux Laptop
project. Airbus & Boeing are in India. You are my fellow employee &
senior to me, IBM has India Research Labs! Many corporates do promote
conferences here, sometimes cost need not to be a deciding factor at
all when quality comes first! Anway, am yet to get a positive signal
from my Bosses.
> And if there's no business case for the Indian government or some
> local Indian companies to pay to fly all of the KS attendees to India,
> why in the world do you think that companies like HP, Intel, IBM, Red
> Hat, Novell, etc. will pay for their employees to travel to the Kernel
> Summit? They don't have even less of the incentive than the local
> Indian companies/government to do so! Maybe during the dot-com
> madness of the late 1990's, when people spent money like crazy on
> things that made no business sense whatsoever, but those days are long
> gone. Money doesn't grow on trees any more, if it ever did.
Regarding getting funding from Indian Govt, have decided to write
personally to President of India, Dr. Kalam & to Minister for
Information Technology (this is as individual capacity). I hope
something happens on this...will try my best (this is a time consuming
process). I do know about why corporates fund the employees (I didn't
say anything -ve about this).
> The main reason why we are trying a one-year experiment in Cambridge
> is because approximately 1/3rd of the KS attendees are from Europe.
> At the moment I believe we have exactly one person from India, who has
> been selected through her own merit, to attend the Kernel Summit. So
> does it make sense to fly everyone else to India? It doesn't seem so
> to me!
I have never mentioned any objections for other locations, plus I do
understand the Geographical factors. Yep, I do know her, she is my
fellow employee and a senior like you ;-)
> So the real answer to how do get the Kernel Summit to happen in India?
> Bring a very large number of developers together in India. Get them
> to work really hard, encourage them to participate on LKML, and
> produce lots of useful patches. Eventually, some of them will do
> enough good work that they will be recognized as maintainers of key
> subsystems. When there are 25-30+ people from India who have done
> enough for the Linux kernel community and risen to be recognized as
> top contributors in the Linux world such that they are invited to the
> Kernel Summit on their own merits, I'm sure there a Kernel Summit in
> India would very quickly follow.
This is quite interesting to me. I wanted to understand here, is
contributing on LKML (patches) is the ONLY criteria for holding a
Kernel Summit? There might be 25-30 people from India on LKML, but
they are scattered around the globe ;-). Anyway, to see 30 good &
right people based in India contributing on LKML might take another
2-3 years more :( But, I will start this with me...
> Still, if someone wants to pay a vast quantity of money to pay travel
> for all so that the KS can be held in some exotic location (especially
> if it's Waikiki beach, or Aspen Colorado during the skiing season),
> I'm sure people will be willing to listen. But realistically, it just
> doesn't make sense, so it's not likely someone would make us such an
> offer. (Unless perhaps in some conspiracy theory scenario where
> Microsoft pays $$$ to some VC company to sponsor an event in Moskow,
> and then contracts out to the KGB to fill the meeting room with an
> aerosolized powder of Polonium 210 to kill off all of the top Linux
> developers in one fell swoop. But that sort of thing only happens in
> spy novels. :-)
I don't think even in a spy novel FSB (ex-KGB) can become a hand in a
glove for Microsoft ;-)
>
> - Ted
Thanks,
~Akula2
On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 10:28:49PM -0500, Theodore Tso wrote:
>...
> Still, if someone wants to pay a vast quantity of money to pay travel
> for all so that the KS can be held in some exotic location (especially
> if it's Waikiki beach, or Aspen Colorado during the skiing season),
> I'm sure people will be willing to listen. But realistically, it just
> doesn't make sense, so it's not likely someone would make us such an
> offer. (Unless perhaps in some conspiracy theory scenario where
> Microsoft pays $$$ to some VC company to sponsor an event in Moskow,
> and then contracts out to the KGB to fill the meeting room with an
> aerosolized powder of Polonium 210 to kill off all of the top Linux
> developers in one fell swoop. But that sort of thing only happens in
> spy novels. :-)
The Caribbean is also a nice place for a conference, and it might fit
your geographic criteria better than Moscow. And if your president gets
convinced that Linux is terrorism against Microsoft, there's a nice
US-controlled venue on Cuba. ;-)
> Regards,
> - Ted
cu
Adrian
--
"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed
Has the place for the KS been decided? If not I like to suggest switzerland.
> On Tue, Jan 23, 2007 at 07:18:46PM +0000, Oleg Verych wrote:
>
> > >> Ditto..
> > >>
> > >> Definitely disagree with that. I'd like to see the conference somewhere
> > >> else different this time - perhaps *Czech Republic*, or somewhere else more
> > >> easterly and Linux active (or even Finland...)
> > >
> > > This is my position as well.
> > >
> > > For the first time in many years I'm strongly considering actually
> > > going to the kernel summit, however if it goes back to Ottawa I
> > > definitely will stop going again.
> >
> > It would be interesting. Thank you Alan, David!
>
> I (and SUSE/Novell) would be happy to help organizing the Kernel Summit
> in Czech Republic.
>
>
On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 07:29:09PM +0000, James Simmons wrote:
>
> Has the place for the KS been decided? If not I like to suggest switzerland.
>
> > On Tue, Jan 23, 2007 at 07:18:46PM +0000, Oleg Verych wrote:
> >
> > > >> Ditto..
> > > >>
> > > >> Definitely disagree with that. I'd like to see the conference somewhere
> > > >> else different this time - perhaps *Czech Republic*, or somewhere else more
> > > >> easterly and Linux active (or even Finland...)
> > > >
> > > > This is my position as well.
> > > >
> > > > For the first time in many years I'm strongly considering actually
> > > > going to the kernel summit, however if it goes back to Ottawa I
> > > > definitely will stop going again.
> > >
> > > It would be interesting. Thank you Alan, David!
> >
> > I (and SUSE/Novell) would be happy to help organizing the Kernel Summit
> > in Czech Republic.
I didn't get any response yet to my proposal.
--
Vojtech Pavlik
Director SuSE Labs
> On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 07:29:09PM +0000, James Simmons wrote:
> >
> > Has the place for the KS been decided? If not I like to suggest switzerland.
> >
> > > On Tue, Jan 23, 2007 at 07:18:46PM +0000, Oleg Verych wrote:
> > >
> > > > >> Ditto..
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Definitely disagree with that. I'd like to see the conference somewhere
> > > > >> else different this time - perhaps *Czech Republic*, or somewhere else more
> > > > >> easterly and Linux active (or even Finland...)
> > > > >
> > > > > This is my position as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > For the first time in many years I'm strongly considering actually
> > > > > going to the kernel summit, however if it goes back to Ottawa I
> > > > > definitely will stop going again.
> > > >
> > > > It would be interesting. Thank you Alan, David!
> > >
> > > I (and SUSE/Novell) would be happy to help organizing the Kernel Summit
> > > in Czech Republic.
>
> I didn't get any response yet to my proposal.
So it is between Britian or the Czech Republic. BTW how long of a train
ride is to swizterland from CZ. My wife's family lives there.
On Tuesday 06 February 2007 21:10, James Simmons wrote:
>
> So it is between Britian or the Czech Republic. BTW how long of a train
> ride is to swizterland from CZ. My wife's family lives there.
Too long. 15 hours according to http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en .
You probably want to take a cheap flight instead.
Arnd <><
On 2/7/07, Arnd Bergmann <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tuesday 06 February 2007 21:10, James Simmons wrote:
> >
> > So it is between Britian or the Czech Republic. BTW how long of a train
> > ride is to swizterland from CZ. My wife's family lives there.
>
> Too long. 15 hours according to
> http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en .
> You probably want to take a cheap flight instead.
>
Isn't there a nighttrain? You could (try to) sleep during the journey.
I'd be interested in Czech too.
Markus
On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 01:17:02PM +0000, Steven Whitehouse wrote:
> Wrt, point (a), UKUUG are moving their UK based Summer Linux conference
> to coincide timewise with the kernel summit. Normally its in the July/August
> time frame. Location probably, but last I heard from Alasdair Kergon not
> certain to be, in Cambridge,
Now confirmed - Cambridge, UK - Sunday 2nd to Tuesday 4th September.
(A combined event with Linux-Kongress.)
Extract from the Call for Papers:
We invite speakers on any aspect of Linux development and use. The
programme aims to cover a variety of topics, including kernel and
desktop development, tools, applications, networking, security,
performance and case-studies of linux deployments. Any topic likely to
be of interest to Linux developers and enthusiasts will be considered.
In view of the Kernel Summit following the event, we anticipate
devoting a significant proportion of the programme to the linux
kernel. We are also particularly interested in receiving papers that
focus on the historical development of computing in the Cambridge area.
Closing date for abstracts: 20th May 2007
http://www.linuxconf.eu/cfp/
http://lists.linuxconf.eu/mailman/listinfo/cambridge-announce
Alasdair
--
[email protected]