2020-03-14 00:57:45

by Jakub Kicinski

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: [PATCH v2 0/4] kselftest: add fixture parameters

Hi!

This set is an attempt to make running tests for different
sets of data easier. The direct motivation is the tls
test which we'd like to run for TLS 1.2 and TLS 1.3,
but currently there is no easy way to invoke the same
tests with different parameters.

Tested all users of kselftest_harness.h.

v2:
- don't run tests by fixture
- don't pass params as an explicit argument

Note that we loose a little bit of type safety
without passing parameters as an explicit argument.
If user puts the name of the wrong fixture as argument
to CURRENT_FIXTURE() it will happily cast the type.

Jakub Kicinski (4):
selftests/seccomp: use correct FIXTURE macro
kselftest: create fixture objects
kselftest: add fixture parameters
selftests: tls: run all tests for TLS 1.2 and TLS 1.3

Documentation/dev-tools/kselftest.rst | 3 +-
tools/testing/selftests/kselftest_harness.h | 156 ++++++++++++++++--
tools/testing/selftests/net/tls.c | 93 ++---------
tools/testing/selftests/seccomp/seccomp_bpf.c | 10 +-
4 files changed, 168 insertions(+), 94 deletions(-)

--
2.24.1


2020-03-15 02:49:32

by Kees Cook

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/4] kselftest: add fixture parameters

On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 05:54:57PM -0700, Jakub Kicinski wrote:
> Note that we loose a little bit of type safety
> without passing parameters as an explicit argument.
> If user puts the name of the wrong fixture as argument
> to CURRENT_FIXTURE() it will happily cast the type.

This got me to take a much closer look at things. I really didn't like
needing to repeat the fixture name in CURRENT_FIXTURE() calls, and then
started coming to all the same conclusions you did in your v1, that I
just didn't quite see yet in my first review. :P

Apologies for my wishy-washy-ness on this, but here's me talking myself
out of my earlier criticisms:

- "I want tests to be run in declaration order" In v1, this is actually
mostly retained: they're still in declaration order, but they're
grouped by fixture (which are run in declaration order). That, I think,
is totally fine. Someone writing code that interleaves between fixtures
is madness, and having the report retain that ordering seems awful. I
had thought the declaration ordering was entirely removed, but I see on
closer inspection that's not true.

- "I'd like everything attached to _metadata" This results in the
type unsafety you call out here. And I stared at your v2 trying to
find a way around it, but to get the type attached, it has to be
part of the __TEST_F_IMPL() glue, and that means passing it along
side "self", which means plumbing it as a function argument
everywhere.

So, again, sorry for asking to iterate on v1 instead of v2, though the
v2 _really_ helped me see the problems better. ;)

Something I'd like for v3: instead of "parameters" can we call it
"instances"? It provides a way to run separate instances of the same
fixtures. Those instances have parameters (i.e. struct fields), so I'd
prefer the "instance" naming.

Also a change in reporting:

struct __fixture_params_metadata no_param = { .name = "", };

Let's make ".name = NULL" here, and then we can detect instantiation:

printf("[ RUN ] %s%s%s.%s\n", f->name, p->name ? "." : "",
p->name ?: "", t->name);

That'll give us single-instance fixtures an unchanged name:

fixture.test1
fixture.test2

and instanced fixtures will be:

fixture.wayA.test1
fixture.wayA.test2
fixture.wayB.test1
fixture.wayB.test2


And finally, since we're in the land of endless macros, I think it
could be possible to make a macro to generate the __register_foo()
routine bodies. By the end of the series there are three nearly identical
functions in the harness for __register_test(), __register_fixture(), and
__register_fixture_instance(). Something like this as an earlier patch to
refactor the __register_test() that can be used by the latter two in their
patches (and counting will likely need to be refactored earlier too):

#define __LIST_APPEND(head, item) \
{ \
/* Circular linked list where only prev is circular. */ \
if (head == NULL) { \
head = item; \
item->next = NULL; \
item->prev = item; \
return; \
} \
if (__constructor_order == _CONSTRUCTOR_ORDER_FORWARD) {\
item->next = NULL; \
item->prev = head->prev; \
item->prev->next = item; \
head->prev = item; \
} else { \
p->next = head; \
p->next->prev = item; \
p->prev = item; \
head = item; \
} \
}

Which should let it be used, ultimately, as:

static inline void __register_test(struct __test_metadata *t)
__LIST_APPEND(__test_list, t)

static inline void __register_fixture(struct __fixture_metadata *f)
__LIST_APPEND(__fixture_list, f)

static inline void
__register_fixture_instance(struct __fixture_metadata *f,
struct __fixture_instance_metadata *p)
__LIST_APPEND(f->instances, p)


Thanks for working on this!

-Kees

--
Kees Cook

2020-03-15 07:06:52

by David Miller

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/4] kselftest: add fixture parameters

From: Jakub Kicinski <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 17:54:57 -0700

> This set is an attempt to make running tests for different
> sets of data easier. The direct motivation is the tls
> test which we'd like to run for TLS 1.2 and TLS 1.3,
> but currently there is no easy way to invoke the same
> tests with different parameters.
>
> Tested all users of kselftest_harness.h.
>
> v2:
> - don't run tests by fixture
> - don't pass params as an explicit argument
>
> Note that we loose a little bit of type safety
> without passing parameters as an explicit argument.
> If user puts the name of the wrong fixture as argument
> to CURRENT_FIXTURE() it will happily cast the type.

Hmmm, what tree should integrate this patch series?

2020-03-15 20:57:42

by Kees Cook

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/4] kselftest: add fixture parameters

On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 12:05:17AM -0700, David Miller wrote:
> From: Jakub Kicinski <[email protected]>
> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 17:54:57 -0700
>
> > This set is an attempt to make running tests for different
> > sets of data easier. The direct motivation is the tls
> > test which we'd like to run for TLS 1.2 and TLS 1.3,
> > but currently there is no easy way to invoke the same
> > tests with different parameters.
> >
> > Tested all users of kselftest_harness.h.
> >
> > v2:
> > - don't run tests by fixture
> > - don't pass params as an explicit argument
> >
> > Note that we loose a little bit of type safety
> > without passing parameters as an explicit argument.
> > If user puts the name of the wrong fixture as argument
> > to CURRENT_FIXTURE() it will happily cast the type.
>
> Hmmm, what tree should integrate this patch series?

I expect the final version (likely v3) to go via Shuah's selftest tree.

-Kees

--
Kees Cook

2020-03-16 15:55:58

by Bird, Tim

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: RE: [PATCH v2 0/4] kselftest: add fixture parameters

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kees Cook
>
> On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 05:54:57PM -0700, Jakub Kicinski wrote:
> > Note that we loose a little bit of type safety
> > without passing parameters as an explicit argument.
> > If user puts the name of the wrong fixture as argument
> > to CURRENT_FIXTURE() it will happily cast the type.
>
> This got me to take a much closer look at things. I really didn't like
> needing to repeat the fixture name in CURRENT_FIXTURE() calls, and then
> started coming to all the same conclusions you did in your v1, that I
> just didn't quite see yet in my first review. :P
>
> Apologies for my wishy-washy-ness on this, but here's me talking myself
> out of my earlier criticisms:
>
> - "I want tests to be run in declaration order" In v1, this is actually
> mostly retained: they're still in declaration order, but they're
> grouped by fixture (which are run in declaration order). That, I think,
> is totally fine. Someone writing code that interleaves between fixtures
> is madness, and having the report retain that ordering seems awful. I
> had thought the declaration ordering was entirely removed, but I see on
> closer inspection that's not true.
>
> - "I'd like everything attached to _metadata" This results in the
> type unsafety you call out here. And I stared at your v2 trying to
> find a way around it, but to get the type attached, it has to be
> part of the __TEST_F_IMPL() glue, and that means passing it along
> side "self", which means plumbing it as a function argument
> everywhere.
>
> So, again, sorry for asking to iterate on v1 instead of v2, though the
> v2 _really_ helped me see the problems better. ;)
>
> Something I'd like for v3: instead of "parameters" can we call it
> "instances"? It provides a way to run separate instances of the same
> fixtures. Those instances have parameters (i.e. struct fields), so I'd
> prefer the "instance" naming.

Could I humbly suggest "variant" as a possible name here?
IMHO "instance" carries along some semantics related to object
oriented programming, which I think is a bit confusing. (Maybe that's
intentional though, and you prefer that?)

BTW - Fuego has a similar feature for naming a collection of test
parameters with specific values (if I understand this proposed
feature correctly). Fuego's feature was named a long time ago
(incorrectly, I think) and it continues to bug me to this day.
It was named 'specs', and after giving it considerable thought
I've been meaning to change it to 'variants'.

Just a suggestion for consideration. The fact that Fuego got this
wrong is what motivates my suggestion today. You have to live
with this kind of stuff a long time. :-)

We ran into some issues in Fuego with this concept, that motivate
the comments below. I'll use your 'instance' terminology in my comments
although the terminology is different in Fuego.

>
> Also a change in reporting:
>
> struct __fixture_params_metadata no_param = { .name = "", };
>
> Let's make ".name = NULL" here, and then we can detect instantiation:
>
> printf("[ RUN ] %s%s%s.%s\n", f->name, p->name ? "." : "",
> p->name ?: "", t->name);
>
> That'll give us single-instance fixtures an unchanged name:
>
> fixture.test1
> fixture.test2

We ended up in Fuego adding a 'default' instance name for
all tests. That way, all the parsers don't have to be coded to distinguish
if the test identifier includes an instance name or not, which turns
out to be a tough problem.

So single-instance tests would be:
fixture.default.test1
fixture.default.test2
>
> and instanced fixtures will be:
>
> fixture.wayA.test1
> fixture.wayA.test2
> fixture.wayB.test1
> fixture.wayB.test2
>

Parsing of the test identifiers starts to become a thorny issue
as you get longer and longer sequences of test-name parts
(test suite, test fixture, sub-test, test-case, measurement, instance, etc.)
It becomes considerably more difficult if you have more than
one optional element in the identifier, so it's useful to
avoid any optional element you can.

>
> And finally, since we're in the land of endless macros, I think it
> could be possible to make a macro to generate the __register_foo()
> routine bodies. By the end of the series there are three nearly identical
> functions in the harness for __register_test(), __register_fixture(), and
> __register_fixture_instance(). Something like this as an earlier patch to
> refactor the __register_test() that can be used by the latter two in their
> patches (and counting will likely need to be refactored earlier too):
>
> #define __LIST_APPEND(head, item) \
> { \
> /* Circular linked list where only prev is circular. */ \
> if (head == NULL) { \
> head = item; \
> item->next = NULL; \
> item->prev = item; \
> return; \
> } \
> if (__constructor_order == _CONSTRUCTOR_ORDER_FORWARD) {\
> item->next = NULL; \
> item->prev = head->prev; \
> item->prev->next = item; \
> head->prev = item; \
> } else { \
> p->next = head; \
> p->next->prev = item; \
> p->prev = item; \
> head = item; \
> } \
> }
>
> Which should let it be used, ultimately, as:
>
> static inline void __register_test(struct __test_metadata *t)
> __LIST_APPEND(__test_list, t)
>
> static inline void __register_fixture(struct __fixture_metadata *f)
> __LIST_APPEND(__fixture_list, f)
>
> static inline void
> __register_fixture_instance(struct __fixture_metadata *f,
> struct __fixture_instance_metadata *p)
> __LIST_APPEND(f->instances, p)

With my suggestion of 'variant', this would change to:

static inline void
__register_fixture_variant(struct __fixture_metadata *f,
struct __fixture_variant_metadata *p)
__LIST_APPEND(f->variants, p)


Just my 2 cents.
-- Tim

2020-03-16 20:06:21

by Jakub Kicinski

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/4] kselftest: add fixture parameters

On Mon, 16 Mar 2020 15:55:12 +0000 Bird, Tim wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kees Cook
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 05:54:57PM -0700, Jakub Kicinski wrote:
> > > Note that we loose a little bit of type safety
> > > without passing parameters as an explicit argument.
> > > If user puts the name of the wrong fixture as argument
> > > to CURRENT_FIXTURE() it will happily cast the type.
> >
> > This got me to take a much closer look at things. I really didn't like
> > needing to repeat the fixture name in CURRENT_FIXTURE() calls, and then
> > started coming to all the same conclusions you did in your v1, that I
> > just didn't quite see yet in my first review. :P

No worries, it took me a little bit of internal back and forth to
produce v1, and it's still not at all perfect :S

> > Apologies for my wishy-washy-ness on this, but here's me talking myself
> > out of my earlier criticisms:
> >
> > - "I want tests to be run in declaration order" In v1, this is actually
> > mostly retained: they're still in declaration order, but they're
> > grouped by fixture (which are run in declaration order). That, I think,
> > is totally fine. Someone writing code that interleaves between fixtures
> > is madness, and having the report retain that ordering seems awful. I
> > had thought the declaration ordering was entirely removed, but I see on
> > closer inspection that's not true.
> >
> > - "I'd like everything attached to _metadata" This results in the
> > type unsafety you call out here. And I stared at your v2 trying to
> > find a way around it, but to get the type attached, it has to be
> > part of the __TEST_F_IMPL() glue, and that means passing it along
> > side "self", which means plumbing it as a function argument
> > everywhere.
> >
> > So, again, sorry for asking to iterate on v1 instead of v2, though the
> > v2 _really_ helped me see the problems better. ;)
> >
> > Something I'd like for v3: instead of "parameters" can we call it
> > "instances"? It provides a way to run separate instances of the same
> > fixtures. Those instances have parameters (i.e. struct fields), so I'd
> > prefer the "instance" naming.
>
> Could I humbly suggest "variant" as a possible name here?
> IMHO "instance" carries along some semantics related to object
> oriented programming, which I think is a bit confusing. (Maybe that's
> intentional though, and you prefer that?)

I like parameter or argument, since the data provided to the test
is constant, and used to guide the instantiation (i.e. "setup").
"self" looks more like an instance of a class from OOP point of view.

Variant sounds good too, although the abbreviation would be VAR?
Which isn't ideal.

But I really don't care so whoever cares the most please speak up :P

> BTW - Fuego has a similar feature for naming a collection of test
> parameters with specific values (if I understand this proposed
> feature correctly). Fuego's feature was named a long time ago
> (incorrectly, I think) and it continues to bug me to this day.
> It was named 'specs', and after giving it considerable thought
> I've been meaning to change it to 'variants'.
>
> Just a suggestion for consideration. The fact that Fuego got this
> wrong is what motivates my suggestion today. You have to live
> with this kind of stuff a long time. :-)
>
> We ran into some issues in Fuego with this concept, that motivate
> the comments below. I'll use your 'instance' terminology in my comments
> although the terminology is different in Fuego.
>
> > Also a change in reporting:
> >
> > struct __fixture_params_metadata no_param = { .name = "", };
> >
> > Let's make ".name = NULL" here, and then we can detect instantiation:
> >
> > printf("[ RUN ] %s%s%s.%s\n", f->name, p->name ? "." : "",
> > p->name ?: "", t->name);

Do I have to make it NULL or is it okay to test p->name[0] ?
That way we can save one ternary operator from the litany..

> > That'll give us single-instance fixtures an unchanged name:
> >
> > fixture.test1
> > fixture.test2
>
> We ended up in Fuego adding a 'default' instance name for
> all tests. That way, all the parsers don't have to be coded to distinguish
> if the test identifier includes an instance name or not, which turns
> out to be a tough problem.
>
> So single-instance tests would be:
> fixture.default.test1
> fixture.default.test2

Interesting! That makes sense to me, thanks for sharing the experience.
That's why I just appended the param/instance/variant name to the
fixture name.

To me global.default.XYZ is a mouthful. so in my example (perhaps that
should have been part of the cover letter) I got:

[ RUN ] global.keysizes <= non-fixture test
[ OK ] global.keysizes
[ RUN ] tls_basic.base_base <= fixture: "tls_basic", no params
[ OK ] tls_basic.base_base
[ RUN ] tls12.sendfile <= fixture: "tls", param: "12"
[ OK ] tls12.sendfile
[ RUN ] tls13.sendfile <= fixture: "tls", param: "13"
[ OK ] tls13.sendfile (same fixture, diff param)

And users can start inserting underscores themselves if they really
want. (For TLS I was considering different ciphers but they don't impact
testing much.)

> >
> > and instanced fixtures will be:
> >
> > fixture.wayA.test1
> > fixture.wayA.test2
> > fixture.wayB.test1
> > fixture.wayB.test2
> >
>
> Parsing of the test identifiers starts to become a thorny issue
> as you get longer and longer sequences of test-name parts
> (test suite, test fixture, sub-test, test-case, measurement, instance, etc.)
> It becomes considerably more difficult if you have more than
> one optional element in the identifier, so it's useful to
> avoid any optional element you can.
>
> >
> > And finally, since we're in the land of endless macros, I think it
> > could be possible to make a macro to generate the __register_foo()
> > routine bodies. By the end of the series there are three nearly identical
> > functions in the harness for __register_test(), __register_fixture(), and
> > __register_fixture_instance(). Something like this as an earlier patch to
> > refactor the __register_test() that can be used by the latter two in their
> > patches (and counting will likely need to be refactored earlier too):
> >
> > #define __LIST_APPEND(head, item) \
> > { \
> > /* Circular linked list where only prev is circular. */ \
> > if (head == NULL) { \
> > head = item; \
> > item->next = NULL; \
> > item->prev = item; \
> > return; \
> > } \
> > if (__constructor_order == _CONSTRUCTOR_ORDER_FORWARD) {\
> > item->next = NULL; \
> > item->prev = head->prev; \
> > item->prev->next = item; \
> > head->prev = item; \
> > } else { \
> > p->next = head; \
> > p->next->prev = item; \
> > p->prev = item; \
> > head = item; \
> > } \
> > }
> >
> > Which should let it be used, ultimately, as:
> >
> > static inline void __register_test(struct __test_metadata *t)
> > __LIST_APPEND(__test_list, t)
> >
> > static inline void __register_fixture(struct __fixture_metadata *f)
> > __LIST_APPEND(__fixture_list, f)
> >
> > static inline void
> > __register_fixture_instance(struct __fixture_metadata *f,
> > struct __fixture_instance_metadata *p)
> > __LIST_APPEND(f->instances, p)
>
> With my suggestion of 'variant', this would change to:
>
> static inline void
> __register_fixture_variant(struct __fixture_metadata *f,
> struct __fixture_variant_metadata *p)
> __LIST_APPEND(f->variants, p)
>
>
> Just my 2 cents.
> -- Tim

2020-03-16 21:02:25

by Kees Cook

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/4] kselftest: add fixture parameters

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 01:04:16PM -0700, Jakub Kicinski wrote:
> Variant sounds good too, although the abbreviation would be VAR?
> Which isn't ideal.
>
> But I really don't care so whoever cares the most please speak up :P

Let's go with "variant" and just spell it out.

> > BTW - Fuego has a similar feature for naming a collection of test
> > parameters with specific values (if I understand this proposed
> > feature correctly). Fuego's feature was named a long time ago
> > (incorrectly, I think) and it continues to bug me to this day.
> > It was named 'specs', and after giving it considerable thought
> > I've been meaning to change it to 'variants'.
> >
> > Just a suggestion for consideration. The fact that Fuego got this
> > wrong is what motivates my suggestion today. You have to live
> > with this kind of stuff a long time. :-)
> >
> > We ran into some issues in Fuego with this concept, that motivate
> > the comments below. I'll use your 'instance' terminology in my comments
> > although the terminology is different in Fuego.
> >
> > > Also a change in reporting:
> > >
> > > struct __fixture_params_metadata no_param = { .name = "", };
> > >
> > > Let's make ".name = NULL" here, and then we can detect instantiation:
> > >
> > > printf("[ RUN ] %s%s%s.%s\n", f->name, p->name ? "." : "",
> > > p->name ?: "", t->name);
>
> Do I have to make it NULL or is it okay to test p->name[0] ?
> That way we can save one ternary operator from the litany..

I did consider Tim's idea of having them all say 'default', but since
the bulk of tests aren't going to have variants, I don't want to spam
the report with words I have to skip over.

And empty-check (instead of NULL) is fine by me.

> To me global.default.XYZ is a mouthful. so in my example (perhaps that
> should have been part of the cover letter) I got:
>
> [ RUN ] global.keysizes <= non-fixture test
> [ OK ] global.keysizes
> [ RUN ] tls_basic.base_base <= fixture: "tls_basic", no params
> [ OK ] tls_basic.base_base
> [ RUN ] tls12.sendfile <= fixture: "tls", param: "12"
> [ OK ] tls12.sendfile
> [ RUN ] tls13.sendfile <= fixture: "tls", param: "13"
> [ OK ] tls13.sendfile (same fixture, diff param)
>
> And users can start inserting underscores themselves if they really
> want. (For TLS I was considering different ciphers but they don't impact
> testing much.)

The reason I'd like a dot is just for lay-person grep-ability and
to avoid everyone needing to remember to add separator prefixes --
there should just be a common one. e.g. searching for "tls13" in the
tree wouldn't find the test (since it's actually named "tls" and "13"
is separate places). (I mean, sure, searching for "tls" is also insane,
but I think I made my point.)

-Kees

--
Kees Cook

2020-03-16 21:28:38

by Jakub Kicinski

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/4] kselftest: add fixture parameters

On Mon, 16 Mar 2020 14:01:33 -0700 Kees Cook wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 01:04:16PM -0700, Jakub Kicinski wrote:
> > Variant sounds good too, although the abbreviation would be VAR?
> > Which isn't ideal.
> >
> > But I really don't care so whoever cares the most please speak up :P
>
> Let's go with "variant" and just spell it out.
>
> > > BTW - Fuego has a similar feature for naming a collection of test
> > > parameters with specific values (if I understand this proposed
> > > feature correctly). Fuego's feature was named a long time ago
> > > (incorrectly, I think) and it continues to bug me to this day.
> > > It was named 'specs', and after giving it considerable thought
> > > I've been meaning to change it to 'variants'.
> > >
> > > Just a suggestion for consideration. The fact that Fuego got this
> > > wrong is what motivates my suggestion today. You have to live
> > > with this kind of stuff a long time. :-)
> > >
> > > We ran into some issues in Fuego with this concept, that motivate
> > > the comments below. I'll use your 'instance' terminology in my comments
> > > although the terminology is different in Fuego.
> > >
> > > > Also a change in reporting:
> > > >
> > > > struct __fixture_params_metadata no_param = { .name = "", };
> > > >
> > > > Let's make ".name = NULL" here, and then we can detect instantiation:
> > > >
> > > > printf("[ RUN ] %s%s%s.%s\n", f->name, p->name ? "." : "",
> > > > p->name ?: "", t->name);
> >
> > Do I have to make it NULL or is it okay to test p->name[0] ?
> > That way we can save one ternary operator from the litany..
>
> I did consider Tim's idea of having them all say 'default', but since
> the bulk of tests aren't going to have variants, I don't want to spam
> the report with words I have to skip over.
>
> And empty-check (instead of NULL) is fine by me.
>
> > To me global.default.XYZ is a mouthful. so in my example (perhaps that
> > should have been part of the cover letter) I got:
> >
> > [ RUN ] global.keysizes <= non-fixture test
> > [ OK ] global.keysizes
> > [ RUN ] tls_basic.base_base <= fixture: "tls_basic", no params
> > [ OK ] tls_basic.base_base
> > [ RUN ] tls12.sendfile <= fixture: "tls", param: "12"
> > [ OK ] tls12.sendfile
> > [ RUN ] tls13.sendfile <= fixture: "tls", param: "13"
> > [ OK ] tls13.sendfile (same fixture, diff param)
> >
> > And users can start inserting underscores themselves if they really
> > want. (For TLS I was considering different ciphers but they don't impact
> > testing much.)
>
> The reason I'd like a dot is just for lay-person grep-ability and
> to avoid everyone needing to remember to add separator prefixes --
> there should just be a common one. e.g. searching for "tls13" in the
> tree wouldn't find the test (since it's actually named "tls" and "13"
> is separate places). (I mean, sure, searching for "tls" is also insane,
> but I think I made my point.)

Ack, can't argue with grep-ability :)