I have an internal iomega 'type' (not iomega) IDE zip drive. It mounts as /dev/hdd instead of /dev/hdd4. Mounting as /dev/hdd seems okay.
Mounting as /dev/hdd4 will hang my kernel( 2.4.9-2.4.14). I have read that on some MB you can change the bios to none for the ide device and this works on certain mb. I tried this and it did not change anything.
MB is ABIT KT7A.
Bug, some disks will mount as /dev/hdd4 if you try. This seems to have erratic behavior as sometimes you will have no problems, othertimes it will tell you you have mounted Read only even though mount show rw. If you copy large files to the drive (38 to 50 meg backups) you may have it hang in the middle of cp.
you can eject the disk from the drive, you cannot kill cp, you cannot properly shutdown system as there are messages about hdd umount failing and this just hangs the system and becomes unusable.
Workaround seems to be mount as /dev/hdd. This seems wrong though.
Reproducability is often.
Joe
On Mon, 12 Nov 2001, [email protected] wrote:
(reformatted quote to heed line length provisions)
> I have an internal iomega 'type' (not iomega) IDE zip drive. It
> mounts as /dev/hdd instead of /dev/hdd4. Mounting as /dev/hdd seems
> okay.
>
> Mounting as /dev/hdd4 will hang my kernel( 2.4.9-2.4.14). I have read
> that on some MB you can change the bios to none for the ide device and
> this works on certain mb. I tried this and it did not change
> anything.
Well, all this depends on how the media has been formatted. From what I
heard (I have no exchangable drives since I sold my SyQuest crap), some
ZIP (presumably) media are partitioned and have their fourth partition
formatted, giving your data as /dev/hdd4 or /dev/sdb4 or something other
with 4 to the end. Then, the entire media might be formatted "raw" with
Linux, so you'd have to mount /dev/hdd instead.
The BIOS is only involved for booting and come APM or ACPI (power
saving) stuff, maybe also for VESA frame buffer stuff, but other than
that, its settings are partially read and the BIOS is no longer taken
into account.
Of course, a system hang is Not Nice[tm] and should be fixed by the
respective maintainers IF IT IS an actual bug. Please check the cabling
or use hdparm to use more conservative transfer modes before assuming
it's a bug with Linux -- a "cp" hang certainly warrants investigation.
OTOH, mount should not hang if you mount the wrong part of the disk, but
complain instead, however, I'm not sure if a bogus partition entry can
cause these hangs.
Matthias Andree wrote:
>
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2001, [email protected] wrote:
>
> (reformatted quote to heed line length provisions)
> > I have an internal iomega 'type' (not iomega) IDE zip drive. It
> > mounts as /dev/hdd instead of /dev/hdd4. Mounting as /dev/hdd seems
> > okay.
> >
> > Mounting as /dev/hdd4 will hang my kernel( 2.4.9-2.4.14). I have read
> > that on some MB you can change the bios to none for the ide device and
> > this works on certain mb. I tried this and it did not change
> > anything.
>
> Well, all this depends on how the media has been formatted. From what I
> heard (I have no exchangable drives since I sold my SyQuest crap), some
> ZIP (presumably) media are partitioned and have their fourth partition
> formatted, giving your data as /dev/hdd4 or /dev/sdb4 or something other
> with 4 to the end. Then, the entire media might be formatted "raw" with
> Linux, so you'd have to mount /dev/hdd instead.
>
Yes, in theory ;-)
I have an internal IDE 100MB Zip @home.
In the office I have a 250MB USB ZIP.
The media is partitioned, with the 4th primary partition formatted
as VFAT.
On the IDE I mount /dev/hdb, on the USB thing I mount sd[ab]4
depending if the flash reader is there or not.
Hmh?
# fdisk -l /dev/sdb
Disk /dev/sdb: 4 heads, 32 sectors, 1536 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 128 * 512 bytes
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sdb4 1 1536 98288 6 FAT16
Of course I use different kernels, @home: 2.4.9ac18 and 2.4.1[34]-xfs;
@office for now 2.4.9ac3+bcl.
Until now I thought it had something to do with the different gendisk,
LDM or so.
Peter W?chtler schrieb am Dienstag, den 13. November 2001:
> On the IDE I mount /dev/hdb, on the USB thing I mount sd[ab]4
> depending if the flash reader is there or not.
> Hmh?
Do these behave differently? In particular, do the IDE Zip drives hide
the partition structure...
> Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
> /dev/sdb4 1 1536 98288 6 FAT16
...which is evidently there?
> Until now I thought it had something to do with the different gendisk,
> LDM or so.
Well, you may also see firmware and/or design flaws in the drive
(personally, I have never trusted iomega, because on the CeBIT fair in
Hannover, I once asked them "why should I prefer iomega ZIP or JAZ over
SyQuest" and they had no answer except "we're just better". I later
heard complaints about the SCSI ID only to be chosen from 5 or 6, 25-pin
SCSI connectors and stuff, then there was the click-of-death sabotage
and now there is your "partition entry or not" problem.)
http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/linux/zip/zip-1.html has some info which does
not look too promising when you're after consistent behaviour across the
various drive types (interface-wise, that is).
Judging from what's on that page, the IDE driver seems to know it's just
a "floppy" without partitions, but the USB driver sees the (fake)
partitions.
--
Matthias Andree
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
If it were just a case of mount complainig about partitions or something I could live with that, but it is not.
If the partition is bad it should not mount it. Plain and simple and it should compain. The fact is that it does mount it.
If it was really mounted read only, cp should fail, rather than trying to cp to the drive and complain 'could not copy'.
If I do a kill -9 on the process ID of cp, cp should die. It does not. EVER. Instead the console starts to fill up with messages about hdd. I'll see if I can get the exact message.
If I try to shut down the system it does not. It kills all processes except for the zip drive, then I see the console fill and scroll (super fast) with hdd messages.
So who is the maintainer of the ide-floppy as that is what I am using.
Joe
(reformatted quote to heed line length provisions)
> I have an internal iomega 'type' (not iomega) IDE zip drive. It
> mounts as /dev/hdd instead of /dev/hdd4. Mounting as /dev/hdd seems
> okay.
>
> Mounting as /dev/hdd4 will hang my kernel( 2.4.9-2.4.14). I have read
> that on some MB you can change the bios to none for the ide device and
> this works on certain mb. I tried this and it did not change
> anything.
Well, all this depends on how the media has been formatted. From what I
heard (I have no exchangable drives since I sold my SyQuest crap), some
ZIP (presumably) media are partitioned and have their fourth partition
formatted, giving your data as /dev/hdd4 or /dev/sdb4 or something other
with 4 to the end. Then, the entire media might be formatted "raw" with
Linux, so you'd have to mount /dev/hdd instead.
The BIOS is only involved for booting and come APM or ACPI (power
saving) stuff, maybe also for VESA frame buffer stuff, but other than
that, its settings are partially read and the BIOS is no longer taken
into account.
Of course, a system hang is Not Nice[tm] and should be fixed by the
respective maintainers IF IT IS an actual bug. Please check the cabling
or use hdparm to use more conservative transfer modes before assuming
it's a bug with Linux -- a "cp" hang certainly warrants investigation.
OTOH, mount should not hang if you mount the wrong part of the disk, but
complain instead, however, I'm not sure if a bogus partition entry can
cause these hangs.
Matthias Andree schrieb:
>
> Peter W?chtler schrieb am Dienstag, den 13. November 2001:
>
> > On the IDE I mount /dev/hdb, on the USB thing I mount sd[ab]4
> > depending if the flash reader is there or not.
> > Hmh?
>
> Do these behave differently? In particular, do the IDE Zip drives hide
> the partition structure...
>
> > Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
> > /dev/sdb4 1 1536 98288 6 FAT16
>
> ...which is evidently there?
>
> > Until now I thought it had something to do with the different gendisk,
> > LDM or so.
>
> Well, you may also see firmware and/or design flaws in the drive
> (personally, I have never trusted iomega, because on the CeBIT fair in
> Hannover, I once asked them "why should I prefer iomega ZIP or JAZ over
> SyQuest" and they had no answer except "we're just better". I later
> heard complaints about the SCSI ID only to be chosen from 5 or 6, 25-pin
> SCSI connectors and stuff, then there was the click-of-death sabotage
> and now there is your "partition entry or not" problem.)
>
> http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/linux/zip/zip-1.html has some info which does
> not look too promising when you're after consistent behaviour across the
> various drive types (interface-wise, that is).
>
> Judging from what's on that page, the IDE driver seems to know it's just
> a "floppy" without partitions, but the USB driver sees the (fake)
> partitions.
>
Wow, thanks for this link. It explains the details very well.
Nov 12 21:50:51 picklock kernel: hdb: 98288kB, 196576 blocks, 512 sector size
Nov 12 21:50:51 picklock kernel: VFS: Disk change detected on device ide0(3,68)
Nov 12 21:50:54 picklock kernel: hdb: hdb1 hdb2 hdb3 hdb4
Nov 12 21:50:54 picklock kernel: ide-floppy: hdb: I/O error, pc = 28, key = 5,
Nov 12 21:50:54 picklock kernel: end_request: I/O error, dev 03:44 (hdb), sector
<4>hdb: IOMEGA ZIP 100 ATAPI Floppy, ATAPI FLOPPY drive
This was an attempt of (mdir z: with z: mapping to /dev/hdb4)
BTW, on the same day I bought this thing, "Linux" did demolish my only media.
But luckily I also bought a SB Live!, told the dealer, that I am running an
Athlon with 686_A_ (not B) southbridge and the soundcard does not work also.
I got a different soundcard and a new ZIP media for no extra costs ;-)
Hmm,
>> Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
>> /dev/sdb4 1 1536 98288 6 FAT16
>.which is evidently there?
I found out some of my disks have no partition table 'readable by Linux'. Which is really f***** weird since, they can be read under NT. What is also really weird is that some of these disks can be mounted as /dev/hdd4 even though there is no valid partition.
In some cases these are zip disks that were readable under 2.2.x, but since I don't have 2.2.x anymore I cannot verify that they would still be readable. Rather strange that a disk partition would just disapear like that. Unless the drive itself is hiding it or not recgonizing it.
In any case it seems if I run fdisk against the disks and then mformat they behave better. But aren't zip disks formated and partitioned out of the box? These ones all were.
>> Until now I thought it had something to do with the different gendisk,
>> LDM or so.
>Well, you may also see firmware and/or design flaws in the drive
>(personally, I have never trusted iomega, because on the CeBIT fair in
Mine is not an 'iomega' drive, but a copy. Made by someone else. AFAIK.
>Hannover, I once asked them "why should I prefer iomega ZIP or JAZ over
>SyQuest" and they had no answer except "we're just better". I later
>heard complaints about the SCSI ID only to be chosen from 5 or 6,
25-pin
I got mine cause it was cheap, internal and I already had zip disks.
>Judging from what's on that page, the IDE driver seems to know it's >just
>a "floppy" without partitions, but the USB driver sees the (fake)
>partitions.
This would explain what I am seeing, weird as it may seem. I used to be using an external iomega zip drive that recgonized these disks, but now the internal one does not seem to.
I guess this means that I have to run fdisk on all these disks. Then mformat.
Hmm, it would be nice if there was a workaround.
Joe