2012-11-14 20:38:26

by Matt W. Benjamin

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: !

Hi Trond,

I think your point that discussion of alternative ways of doing things which might ultimately be standardized reflects lack of understanding of the concept of standardization is ... a non-sequitur.

I did state that the standard doesn't benefit from restricting the ability of implementations and applications from evolving new metadata conventions entirely above the file system. This claim is in no way radical, it's how everyone uses the file system already.

Since I haven't violated any rule of netiquette or convention of polite discussion generally, forgive me for not going away.

Regards,

Matt

----- "Trond Myklebust" <[email protected]> wrote:

> > You've said that xattrs and named attributes are completely
> different, but notwithstanding that, there seems to be logically quite
> a bit of overlap. Clearly, the fact that the NFS protocol treats
> named attributes as subfiles is a detail that the client need not
> expose to applications. It also seems as if an xattr interface is
> convenient for interacting with at a subset of named attributes (ones
> with tractable length names/values). I mean, as I note, this is the
> proplist, and that has been a very successful interface in a lot of
> systems, going back a -long- ways.
>
> NO! GO AWAY!!!!
>
> Seriously, if you don't understand the concept of a standard, then go
> away!
>
> Trond

--
Matt Benjamin
The Linux Box
206 South Fifth Ave. Suite 150
Ann Arbor, MI 48104

http://linuxbox.com

tel. 734-761-4689
fax. 734-769-8938
cel. 734-216-5309


2012-11-14 21:03:49

by Myklebust, Trond

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: !
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