Hi,
The Linux Foundation's Collaboration Summit is April 15-17th,
and the Linux Storage, File System, and MM Summit is April 18-19th in
San Francisco (at the Parc 55 hotel).
I'd like to organize an ext4 developer's meeting during the
Collab Summit sometime April 15-17th, since so many of us will hopefully
be attending LSF. (The CFP will hopefully be coming soon for LSF.)
If you're interested in attending, please reply to this thread,
and include some suggested topics that you'd be interested in
discussing. Based on the number of topics and the number of people who
are planning on attending, I'll know how much time we need to reserve
and how big of a room to request.
Also, if you need a invitation letter for Visa purposes, also
please let me know. I can arrange for the Linux Foundation to get that
letter sent, so that folks have enough time to get a Visa.
Thanks!!
- Ted
Hello Ted,
On Mon 14-01-13 09:48:00, Ted Tso wrote:
> The Linux Foundation's Collaboration Summit is April 15-17th,
> and the Linux Storage, File System, and MM Summit is April 18-19th in
> San Francisco (at the Parc 55 hotel).
>
> I'd like to organize an ext4 developer's meeting during the
> Collab Summit sometime April 15-17th, since so many of us will hopefully
> be attending LSF. (The CFP will hopefully be coming soon for LSF.)
>
> If you're interested in attending, please reply to this thread,
> and include some suggested topics that you'd be interested in
> discussing. Based on the number of topics and the number of people who
> are planning on attending, I'll know how much time we need to reserve
> and how big of a room to request.
I'd be interested in attending the ext4 meeting this year. What I'd like
to do for the meeting is creating a "map" of ext4 mount options / features
where we'd see what mount options do we have, which options (or fs features)
work together and which don't. Then we can either convince ourselves the
situation with too many / too complex interactions isn't that bad or we can
come up with simplifications to work on.
Honza
--
Jan Kara <[email protected]>
SUSE Labs, CR
On 1/16/13 6:01 AM, Jan Kara wrote:
> Hello Ted,
>
> On Mon 14-01-13 09:48:00, Ted Tso wrote:
>> The Linux Foundation's Collaboration Summit is April 15-17th,
>> and the Linux Storage, File System, and MM Summit is April 18-19th in
>> San Francisco (at the Parc 55 hotel).
>>
>> I'd like to organize an ext4 developer's meeting during the
>> Collab Summit sometime April 15-17th, since so many of us will hopefully
>> be attending LSF. (The CFP will hopefully be coming soon for LSF.)
>>
>> If you're interested in attending, please reply to this thread,
>> and include some suggested topics that you'd be interested in
>> discussing. Based on the number of topics and the number of people who
>> are planning on attending, I'll know how much time we need to reserve
>> and how big of a room to request.
> I'd be interested in attending the ext4 meeting this year. What I'd like
> to do for the meeting is creating a "map" of ext4 mount options / features
> where we'd see what mount options do we have, which options (or fs features)
> work together and which don't. Then we can either convince ourselves the
> situation with too many / too complex interactions isn't that bad or we can
> come up with simplifications to work on.
BTW, I didn't pay Jan to say that. ;)
But I think that sounds like an interesting discussion.
-Eric
> Honza
>
Hello Ted,
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 09:48:00AM -0500, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The Linux Foundation's Collaboration Summit is April 15-17th,
> and the Linux Storage, File System, and MM Summit is April 18-19th in
> San Francisco (at the Parc 55 hotel).
>
> I'd like to organize an ext4 developer's meeting during the
> Collab Summit sometime April 15-17th, since so many of us will hopefully
> be attending LSF. (The CFP will hopefully be coming soon for LSF.)
>
> If you're interested in attending, please reply to this thread,
> and include some suggested topics that you'd be interested in
> discussing. Based on the number of topics and the number of people who
> are planning on attending, I'll know how much time we need to reserve
> and how big of a room to request.
>
> Also, if you need a invitation letter for Visa purposes, also
> please let me know. I can arrange for the Linux Foundation to get that
> letter sent, so that folks have enough time to get a Visa.
Tao and I would like to attend the ext4 workshop this year. Here are some
topics that we want to discuss with other folks at this meeting.
* Optimization for different devices
We can consume more resources (e.g. Memory) for Flash/SSD device to get a
better performance. Meanwhile we want to reduce the consumption and provide
a best effort performance for HDD in a low-end server with a ARM CPU, only 1G
memory, and 4 x 3T disks. This are two different directions of optimization.
* Stable tree and long-term tree
I remember that Ted has talked about ext4 stable and long-term tree. So we
can discuss in this meeting how to maintain them and other detail.
* Extent tree disk layout
In this mail [1], Ted metioned that extent structure could be extented to
support larger file, such as 64-bits physical block, bigger logical block, and
using cluster-size as unit in extent. All these can make us better support
large filesystem.
1. http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.file-systems.ext4/35490
* Block allocation hint
An interface (e.g. ioctl(2)) is provided to let the app give a block
allocation hint. Filesystem can allocate some blocks that can be read/written
faster than other blocks for a file, such as allocating blocks on outter track
in HDD.
* Latency
Chris had presented a proposal that is 'data=guarded', which aims at imporving
the latency of sync. We can discuss how to provide stable latency in ext4.
Forgive me that I compare two filesystems here, but the result of the following
test case shows that the latency of ext4 is higher than xfs's. So maybe we can
improve it.
I use 'fio' to do the following test. I revert the patches of stable page write
for avoiding the impact of it. Meanwhile I disable delalloc feature in ext4. I
repeat the test case serveral times, but the result of ext4 is higher than xfs.
[global]
iodepth=1
directory=/mnt/sda3
direct=0
group_reporting
thread
fallocate=0
runtime=120
[log-append]
ioengine=sync
rw=write
bs=4k
size=10g
filesize=10g
rate=5m
numjobs=1
I pick the best result of two filesystems and paste them here.
[ext4]
write: io=614404KB, bw=5119.2KB/s, iops=1279 , runt=120001msec
clat (usec): min=11 , max=149 , avg=14.12, stdev= 1.73
lat (usec): min=11 , max=150 , avg=14.54, stdev= 1.81
[xfs]
write: io=614404KB, bw=5119.2KB/s, iops=1279 , runt=120001msec
clat (usec): min=4 , max=89 , avg= 8.42, stdev= 1.85
lat (usec): min=4 , max=89 , avg= 8.80, stdev= 1.94
BTW, Tao and I need a invitation letter for applying our visa. Please let me
know if there are something we need to do.
Thanks,
- Zheng
HI, Ted,
I would like to attend this meeting this year if posssible,
although i am not one ext4 developer so far, i am working on some VFS
feature, and want to discuss about VFS hot tracking with other FS
folks, thanks.
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:48 PM, Theodore Ts'o <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The Linux Foundation's Collaboration Summit is April 15-17th,
> and the Linux Storage, File System, and MM Summit is April 18-19th in
> San Francisco (at the Parc 55 hotel).
>
> I'd like to organize an ext4 developer's meeting during the
> Collab Summit sometime April 15-17th, since so many of us will hopefully
> be attending LSF. (The CFP will hopefully be coming soon for LSF.)
>
> If you're interested in attending, please reply to this thread,
> and include some suggested topics that you'd be interested in
> discussing. Based on the number of topics and the number of people who
> are planning on attending, I'll know how much time we need to reserve
> and how big of a room to request.
>
> Also, if you need a invitation letter for Visa purposes, also
> please let me know. I can arrange for the Linux Foundation to get that
> letter sent, so that folks have enough time to get a Visa.
>
> Thanks!!
>
> - Ted
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ext4" in
> the body of a message to [email protected]
> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
--
Regards,
Zhi Yong Wu
On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 9:45 AM, Zhi Yong Wu <[email protected]> wrote:
> HI, Ted,
>
> I would like to attend this meeting this year if posssible,
> although i am not one ext4 developer so far, i am working on some VFS
> feature, and want to discuss about VFS hot tracking with other FS
> folks, thanks.
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:48 PM, Theodore Ts'o <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> The Linux Foundation's Collaboration Summit is April 15-17th,
>> and the Linux Storage, File System, and MM Summit is April 18-19th in
>> San Francisco (at the Parc 55 hotel).
>>
>> I'd like to organize an ext4 developer's meeting during the
>> Collab Summit sometime April 15-17th, since so many of us will hopefully
>> be attending LSF. (The CFP will hopefully be coming soon for LSF.)
>>
>> If you're interested in attending, please reply to this thread,
>> and include some suggested topics that you'd be interested in
>> discussing. Based on the number of topics and the number of people who
>> are planning on attending, I'll know how much time we need to reserve
>> and how big of a room to request.
>>
>> Also, if you need a invitation letter for Visa purposes, also
>> please let me know. I can arrange for the Linux Foundation to get that
>> letter sent, so that folks have enough time to get a Visa.
If i get the ticket for this meeting from our company, i also need to
get one invitation letter for US Visa, thanks.
>>
>> Thanks!!
>>
>> - Ted
>> --
>> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ext4" in
>> the body of a message to [email protected]
>> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Zhi Yong Wu
--
Regards,
Zhi Yong Wu
On 01/17/2013 09:15 PM, Zheng Liu wrote:
> Hello Ted,
>
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 09:48:00AM -0500, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> The Linux Foundation's Collaboration Summit is April 15-17th,
>> and the Linux Storage, File System, and MM Summit is April 18-19th in
>> San Francisco (at the Parc 55 hotel).
>>
>> I'd like to organize an ext4 developer's meeting during the
>> Collab Summit sometime April 15-17th, since so many of us will hopefully
>> be attending LSF. (The CFP will hopefully be coming soon for LSF.)
>>
>> If you're interested in attending, please reply to this thread,
>> and include some suggested topics that you'd be interested in
>> discussing. Based on the number of topics and the number of people who
>> are planning on attending, I'll know how much time we need to reserve
>> and how big of a room to request.
>>
>> Also, if you need a invitation letter for Visa purposes, also
>> please let me know. I can arrange for the Linux Foundation to get that
>> letter sent, so that folks have enough time to get a Visa.
>
> Tao and I would like to attend the ext4 workshop this year. Here are some
> topics that we want to discuss with other folks at this meeting.
>
> * Optimization for different devices
> We can consume more resources (e.g. Memory) for Flash/SSD device to get a
> better performance. Meanwhile we want to reduce the consumption and provide
> a best effort performance for HDD in a low-end server with a ARM CPU, only 1G
> memory, and 4 x 3T disks. This are two different directions of optimization.
To be more precisely we are willing to do improvements for the 2 scenarios:
1. high end servers with very fast SSDs like FusionIO, we want to do
file read/write as fast as possible.
2. low end servers with cpu like ARM, small memory and large volumes. In
this case, we want to save cpu power and memory usage.
One more thing Zheng forgot to mention is the ability to do online fsck.
That may be a new direction and we actually haven't think much about it yet.
Thanks,
Tao
>
> * Stable tree and long-term tree
> I remember that Ted has talked about ext4 stable and long-term tree. So we
> can discuss in this meeting how to maintain them and other detail.
>
> * Extent tree disk layout
> In this mail [1], Ted metioned that extent structure could be extented to
> support larger file, such as 64-bits physical block, bigger logical block, and
> using cluster-size as unit in extent. All these can make us better support
> large filesystem.
>
> 1. http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.file-systems.ext4/35490
>
> * Block allocation hint
> An interface (e.g. ioctl(2)) is provided to let the app give a block
> allocation hint. Filesystem can allocate some blocks that can be read/written
> faster than other blocks for a file, such as allocating blocks on outter track
> in HDD.
>
> * Latency
> Chris had presented a proposal that is 'data=guarded', which aims at imporving
> the latency of sync. We can discuss how to provide stable latency in ext4.
> Forgive me that I compare two filesystems here, but the result of the following
> test case shows that the latency of ext4 is higher than xfs's. So maybe we can
> improve it.
>
> I use 'fio' to do the following test. I revert the patches of stable page write
> for avoiding the impact of it. Meanwhile I disable delalloc feature in ext4. I
> repeat the test case serveral times, but the result of ext4 is higher than xfs.
>
> [global]
> iodepth=1
> directory=/mnt/sda3
> direct=0
> group_reporting
> thread
> fallocate=0
> runtime=120
>
> [log-append]
> ioengine=sync
> rw=write
> bs=4k
> size=10g
> filesize=10g
> rate=5m
> numjobs=1
>
> I pick the best result of two filesystems and paste them here.
>
> [ext4]
> write: io=614404KB, bw=5119.2KB/s, iops=1279 , runt=120001msec
> clat (usec): min=11 , max=149 , avg=14.12, stdev= 1.73
> lat (usec): min=11 , max=150 , avg=14.54, stdev= 1.81
>
> [xfs]
> write: io=614404KB, bw=5119.2KB/s, iops=1279 , runt=120001msec
> clat (usec): min=4 , max=89 , avg= 8.42, stdev= 1.85
> lat (usec): min=4 , max=89 , avg= 8.80, stdev= 1.94
>
>
> BTW, Tao and I need a invitation letter for applying our visa. Please let me
> know if there are something we need to do.
>
> Thanks,
> - Zheng
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ext4" in
> the body of a message to [email protected]
> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>
Hi Ted,
I'm not sure yet if I'll be able to go to LSF (need invite), but if I go, I'd
like to attend Ext4 meeting, and I'd like to bring a discussion about a topic we
already discussed but didn't go further, about the mount options we
should/shouldn't support for each filesystem, i.e. today we have some mount
options that although are not supported for a specific filesystem, it can be
used to mount that filesystem, one example is mounting ext3 using
journal_checksum and ext2 with commit=nrsec.
Once we are mostly using ext4 driver to mount ext3 and ext2 fs, I wonder we
should handle these mount options and deny/warning a mount with
wrong/non-supported options. Also, I wonder how useful would be to start do
deprecate ext2/ext3 drivers and just add bugfix to these. Not sure if this is
already being done, but keeping ext4 as primary ext2/3/4 driver should reduce
code maintenance and duplication.
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 09:48:00AM -0500, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The Linux Foundation's Collaboration Summit is April 15-17th,
> and the Linux Storage, File System, and MM Summit is April 18-19th in
> San Francisco (at the Parc 55 hotel).
>
> I'd like to organize an ext4 developer's meeting during the
> Collab Summit sometime April 15-17th, since so many of us will hopefully
> be attending LSF. (The CFP will hopefully be coming soon for LSF.)
>
> If you're interested in attending, please reply to this thread,
> and include some suggested topics that you'd be interested in
> discussing. Based on the number of topics and the number of people who
> are planning on attending, I'll know how much time we need to reserve
> and how big of a room to request.
>
> Also, if you need a invitation letter for Visa purposes, also
> please let me know. I can arrange for the Linux Foundation to get that
> letter sent, so that folks have enough time to get a Visa.
>
> Thanks!!
>
> - Ted
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ext4" in
> the body of a message to [email protected]
> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
--
Carlos
On 01/16/2013 11:15 AM, Eric Sandeen wrote:
> On 1/16/13 6:01 AM, Jan Kara wrote:
>> Hello Ted,
>>
>> On Mon 14-01-13 09:48:00, Ted Tso wrote:
>>> The Linux Foundation's Collaboration Summit is April 15-17th,
>>> and the Linux Storage, File System, and MM Summit is April 18-19th in
>>> San Francisco (at the Parc 55 hotel).
>>>
>>> I'd like to organize an ext4 developer's meeting during the
>>> Collab Summit sometime April 15-17th, since so many of us will hopefully
>>> be attending LSF. (The CFP will hopefully be coming soon for LSF.)
>>>
>>> If you're interested in attending, please reply to this thread,
>>> and include some suggested topics that you'd be interested in
>>> discussing. Based on the number of topics and the number of people who
>>> are planning on attending, I'll know how much time we need to reserve
>>> and how big of a room to request.
>> I'd be interested in attending the ext4 meeting this year. What I'd like
>> to do for the meeting is creating a "map" of ext4 mount options / features
>> where we'd see what mount options do we have, which options (or fs features)
>> work together and which don't. Then we can either convince ourselves the
>> situation with too many / too complex interactions isn't that bad or we can
>> come up with simplifications to work on.
> BTW, I didn't pay Jan to say that. ;)
>
> But I think that sounds like an interesting discussion.
>
> -Eric
>
>
I think that would be great - testing all of the combinations is a nightmare :(
ric
Hi,
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 01:01:56PM +0100, Jan Kara wrote:
> Hello Ted,
>
> On Mon 14-01-13 09:48:00, Ted Tso wrote:
> > The Linux Foundation's Collaboration Summit is April 15-17th,
> > and the Linux Storage, File System, and MM Summit is April 18-19th in
> > San Francisco (at the Parc 55 hotel).
> >
> > I'd like to organize an ext4 developer's meeting during the
> > Collab Summit sometime April 15-17th, since so many of us will hopefully
> > be attending LSF. (The CFP will hopefully be coming soon for LSF.)
> >
> > If you're interested in attending, please reply to this thread,
> > and include some suggested topics that you'd be interested in
> > discussing. Based on the number of topics and the number of people who
> > are planning on attending, I'll know how much time we need to reserve
> > and how big of a room to request.
> I'd be interested in attending the ext4 meeting this year. What I'd like
> to do for the meeting is creating a "map" of ext4 mount options / features
> where we'd see what mount options do we have, which options (or fs features)
> work together and which don't. Then we can either convince ourselves the
> situation with too many / too complex interactions isn't that bad or we can
> come up with simplifications to work on.
>
> Honza
I think that would be useful to extend this discussion to ext2/ext3 mount
options inclusive and merge my suggested topic with this one to find a better
approach of how to deal with all possible mount options existing in ext4 module
for all extX filesystem family.
Cheers,
--
Carlos
Hi,
On Fri 18-01-13 10:53:45, Carlos Maiolino wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 01:01:56PM +0100, Jan Kara wrote:
> > Hello Ted,
> >
> > On Mon 14-01-13 09:48:00, Ted Tso wrote:
> > > The Linux Foundation's Collaboration Summit is April 15-17th,
> > > and the Linux Storage, File System, and MM Summit is April 18-19th in
> > > San Francisco (at the Parc 55 hotel).
> > >
> > > I'd like to organize an ext4 developer's meeting during the
> > > Collab Summit sometime April 15-17th, since so many of us will hopefully
> > > be attending LSF. (The CFP will hopefully be coming soon for LSF.)
> > >
> > > If you're interested in attending, please reply to this thread,
> > > and include some suggested topics that you'd be interested in
> > > discussing. Based on the number of topics and the number of people who
> > > are planning on attending, I'll know how much time we need to reserve
> > > and how big of a room to request.
> > I'd be interested in attending the ext4 meeting this year. What I'd like
> > to do for the meeting is creating a "map" of ext4 mount options / features
> > where we'd see what mount options do we have, which options (or fs features)
> > work together and which don't. Then we can either convince ourselves the
> > situation with too many / too complex interactions isn't that bad or we can
> > come up with simplifications to work on.
>
> I think that would be useful to extend this discussion to ext2/ext3 mount
> options inclusive and merge my suggested topic with this one to find a better
> approach of how to deal with all possible mount options existing in ext4 module
> for all extX filesystem family.
I don't know but I don't have problems with the number of ext2/ext3
options and their combination work as expected. Furthermore even if we
found some possible simplifications, ext2 and ext3 are in
maintenance-mostly mode so some larger changes to features are really out
of question anyway. So I don't think it would be worth the time. But if you
have some particular ext2/3 mount options you have problem with, I'm happy
to listen.
Honza
--
Jan Kara <[email protected]>
SUSE Labs, CR
On Fri 18-01-13 07:06:26, Carlos Maiolino wrote:
> Hi Ted,
>
> I'm not sure yet if I'll be able to go to LSF (need invite), but if I go, I'd
> like to attend Ext4 meeting, and I'd like to bring a discussion about a topic we
> already discussed but didn't go further, about the mount options we
> should/shouldn't support for each filesystem, i.e. today we have some mount
> options that although are not supported for a specific filesystem, it can be
> used to mount that filesystem, one example is mounting ext3 using
> journal_checksum and ext2 with commit=nrsec.
Ah, I think I misunderstood you in your other email so disregard it
please. Discussing whether we should support various mount options when
ext4 driver is used to mount ext2/ext4 indeed makes sence.
> Once we are mostly using ext4 driver to mount ext3 and ext2 fs, I wonder we
> should handle these mount options and deny/warning a mount with
> wrong/non-supported options. Also, I wonder how useful would be to start do
> deprecate ext2/ext3 drivers and just add bugfix to these. Not sure if this is
> already being done, but keeping ext4 as primary ext2/3/4 driver should reduce
> code maintenance and duplication.
ext2/3 already accept mostly bugfixes. And I say mostly because from time
to time I make an exception and accept a well self-contained feature.
FITRIM support was the last example I think. Regarding ext4 being primary -
for Fedora it already is for over an year, right? openSUSE used ext4 to
access ext2 for about an year and 12.3 will use ext4 to access ext3 as well
(unless QA shows some serious issues but I didn't find anything when I
tried it myself). Now I think we can say the transition has completed when
an enterprise distro (RHEL or SLES) switch as well.
Honza
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 09:48:00AM -0500, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > The Linux Foundation's Collaboration Summit is April 15-17th,
> > and the Linux Storage, File System, and MM Summit is April 18-19th in
> > San Francisco (at the Parc 55 hotel).
> >
> > I'd like to organize an ext4 developer's meeting during the
> > Collab Summit sometime April 15-17th, since so many of us will hopefully
> > be attending LSF. (The CFP will hopefully be coming soon for LSF.)
> >
> > If you're interested in attending, please reply to this thread,
> > and include some suggested topics that you'd be interested in
> > discussing. Based on the number of topics and the number of people who
> > are planning on attending, I'll know how much time we need to reserve
> > and how big of a room to request.
> >
> > Also, if you need a invitation letter for Visa purposes, also
> > please let me know. I can arrange for the Linux Foundation to get that
> > letter sent, so that folks have enough time to get a Visa.
> >
> > Thanks!!
> >
> > - Ted
> > --
> > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ext4" in
> > the body of a message to [email protected]
> > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>
> --
> Carlos
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ext4" in
> the body of a message to [email protected]
> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
--
Jan Kara <[email protected]>
SUSE Labs, CR