Isn't this one completely obsolete?
So maybe we could drop sys_setfsuid() and sys_setfsgid() if those calls
have no other use then for running unfsd as root?
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On Mon, 6 Sep 2004, Frank van Maarseveen wrote:
>Anyway, I found this:
>
> http://clusternfs.sourceforge.net
Another alternative is unfs3: http://unfs3.sourceforge.net/. It provides
the same cluster extensions, and also has some other interesting features:
* NFSv3 instead of NFSv2 (it's easier to write userspace NFS servers with
v3, since the filehandle is larger.)
* Can run the MOUNT and NFS protocol on the same TCP port. Very useful
when tunneling through SSH.
* Can export removable devices, even with FAT filesystems.
* Supports mount-time passwords. When passwords are used, the filehandles
are scrambled with the password.
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P=E5 su , 05/09/2004 klokka 17:09, skreiv Frank van Maarseveen:
> Isn't this one completely obsolete?
Yes. Debian still keeps it around, though.
> So maybe we could drop sys_setfsuid() and sys_setfsgid() if those calls
> have no other use then for running unfsd as root?
That is really a question to be put to lkml rather than this list,
however note that we still do have userspace file-servers to support.
Does Samba use it, for instance?
Cheers,
Trond
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On Sun, Sep 05, 2004 at 05:25:52PM -0400, Trond Myklebust wrote:
> P=E5 su , 05/09/2004 klokka 17:09, skreiv Frank van Maarseveen:
> > Isn't this one completely obsolete?
>=20
> Yes. Debian still keeps it around, though.
Maybe with an old kernel as well.
Anyway, I found this:
http://clusternfs.sourceforge.net
This is not supported by knfsd I think.
--=20
Frank
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P=E5 su , 05/09/2004 klokka 18:01, skreiv Frank van Maarseveen:
> Anyway, I found this:
>=20
> http://clusternfs.sourceforge.net
>=20
> This is not supported by knfsd I think.
Wow. People would actually trust their root partition to unfsd? The mind
boggles...
Note: there is no reason why this couldn't be done for knfsd (or even
for local file accesses) using a stackable filesystem.
Cheers,
Trond
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On Sun, 5 Sep 2004, Trond Myklebust wrote:
> Wow. People would actually trust their root partition to unfsd? The mind
> boggles...
Err, you mean to say that root-NFS only appeared after knfsd ? And
that knfsd was absolutely flawless since day 1 ? :-)
Cluster nodes have usually a small number of software packages
installed. Most "core" packages (like core-utils, grep, gawk, etc.)
don't need locking. As / doesn't see itself much writting (which
happens usually in /var and /tmp, but those can be mounted
separately), NFSv3 vs. NFSv2 doesn't make much difference either. So
what's the problem with using unfsd in these conditions ?
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P=E5 su , 05/09/2004 klokka 20:47, skreiv Bogdan Costescu:
> Err, you mean to say that root-NFS only appeared after knfsd ? And=20
> that knfsd was absolutely flawless since day 1 ? :-)
No. I mean that very few people have ever used unfsd in mission-critical
production environments.
You might get away with it for read-only stuff (if you are prepared to
put up with the speed), but nobody should be using it for read/write
partitions.
> Cluster nodes have usually a small number of software packages=20
> installed. Most "core" packages (like core-utils, grep, gawk, etc.)=20
> don't need locking. As / doesn't see itself much writting (which=20
> happens usually in /var and /tmp, but those can be mounted=20
> separately), NFSv3 vs. NFSv2 doesn't make much difference either. So=20
> what's the problem with using unfsd in these conditions ?
If you have to mount all the writeable partitions separately from a more
robust server, then why bother? Replicating /etc and changing the two or
three files that differ for each cluster node is hardly a difficult
task: you can do it using a simple shell script. /bin doesn't even have
to be replicated...
The "per-uid" and "per-gid" stuff might be more useful, but is likely to
be defeated by lookup caching rules on most NFS clients.
Note: the premise:
If a matching file is located, but authorization is denied,this
is NOT considered a match, and the next entry on the list will
be attempted.
if taken literally, would certainly make managing these name.ipaddress
files "interesting": "chmod a+r,a-w blah; cat >blah" might have some
curious side-effects...
Cheers,
Trond
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On Mon, Sep 06, 2004 at 09:41:31AM +0200, Peter Astrand wrote:
>
> Another alternative is unfs3: http://unfs3.sourceforge.net/. It provides
> the same cluster extensions, and also has some other interesting features:
> ...
> * Can run the MOUNT and NFS protocol on the same TCP port. Very useful
> when tunneling through SSH.
Suppose I have an ssh tunnel to a system on which I don't have root
access. Can I use unfs3 under a non-root id there to export / and
below, mount it [as root] locally, such, that I can work under my own
uid locally?
That would be quite useful.
--
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On Sun, 5 Sep 2004, Trond Myklebust wrote:
> No. I mean that very few people have ever used unfsd in mission-critical
> production environments.
Well, I don't know what your standards are relative to
"mission-critical", but some years ago knfsd didn't exist and
clustering people (among others) had to use the user-level daemon(s)
for everything anyway. Some preferred to continue this way... (I'm not
among them though).
> If you have to mount all the writeable partitions separately from a more
> robust server, then why bother?
/tmp is usually a local disk, not another NFS server. For /var things
are not so clear though, but if you have a heavy-written /var
partition then NFS (even with knfsd) might not be the best solution
anyway - a parallel FS that would share the disk bandwidth might be
better even than local disk (and might provide better reliability...)
> Replicating /etc and changing the two or three files that differ for
> each cluster node is hardly a difficult task: you can do it using a
> simple shell script. /bin doesn't even have to be replicated...
As in Unix tradition, there are several ways to achieve the same goal.
There are people using 'mount -o bind' (like RHEL's diskless booting
setup procedure) or hard-links (what I use). But both of these require
some maintenance effort in form of scripts and a general cleanliness
in handling software updates or new installs. With clusternfs, the
files are created in their place with their intended destination in
the name and the daemon takes care of the rest... There are people
that prefer to concentrate on science rather than system
administration. :-)
--
Bogdan Costescu
IWR - Interdisziplinaeres Zentrum fuer Wissenschaftliches Rechnen
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> > * Can run the MOUNT and NFS protocol on the same TCP port. Very useful
> > when tunneling through SSH.
>
> Suppose I have an ssh tunnel to a system on which I don't have root
> access. Can I use unfs3 under a non-root id there to export / and
> below, mount it [as root] locally, such, that I can work under my own
> uid locally?
Yes, that works.
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P=E5 m=E5 , 06/09/2004 klokka 15:35, skreiv Bogdan Costescu:
> As in Unix tradition, there are several ways to achieve the same goal. =20
> There are people using 'mount -o bind' (like RHEL's diskless booting
> setup procedure) or hard-links (what I use). But both of these require
> some maintenance effort in form of scripts and a general cleanliness
> in handling software updates or new installs. With clusternfs, the
> files are created in their place with their intended destination in
> the name and the daemon takes care of the rest... There are people
> that prefer to concentrate on science rather than system
> administration. :-)
Hey, it's a free world.
However please beware that most of the hacks that worked around the
non-rfc-compliant behaviours of unfsd are long since gone from the
kernel and will not be coming back.
Cheers,
Trond
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On Sun, Sep 05, 2004 at 11:32:57PM -0400, Trond Myklebust wrote:
> No. I mean that very few people have ever used unfsd in mission-critical
> production environments.
> You might get away with it for read-only stuff (if you are prepared to
> put up with the speed), but nobody should be using it for read/write
> partitions.
Suse actually used it for /home until about 1.5 years ago or even
less, and we had less problems than with knfsd.
Olaf
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