Julian Calaby <[email protected]> writes:
> Hi Dmitry,
>
> (relevant people and lists CC'd)
>
> On Fri, Oct 6, 2023 at 3:16 AM Dmitry Antipov <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Kalle,
>>
>> what's an actual status of brcm80211 driver? It seems
>> that the relevant MAINTAINERS entries are no longer
>> useful, and [1] states that Broadcom is just "disappeared".
>
> Arend hasn't posted since February:
> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-wireless/[email protected]/
>
> Franky is still reviewing things as of early August:
> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-wireless/CA+8PC_evb-6Y3dKnAN4BN=ODEVxY5-cDb6Lc72u0j1WBtx7p1A@mail.gmail.com/
>
> Hante hasn't posted since 2018:
> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-wireless/[email protected]/
>
> Hector Martin has a bunch of Apple-specific patches downstream in the
> Asahi Linux kernel and has been looking for guidance on how to
> upstream it without any real answers:
> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-wireless/[email protected]/
>
> There's also speculation that the Raspberry Pi people have downstream
> patches too, but I haven't been able to find anything concrete in a
> very brief search.
Thanks for the research, that is helpful.
> Finally, the Cypress / Infineon people appear to be uninterested in
> discussing the driver.
>
> I think it's pretty safe to say that this driver is nearly
> unmaintained by Broadcom, definitely unmaintained by Cypress /
> Infineon and Arend is unable to answer questions relating to anything
> beyond the code as-written.
>
> Kalle, should this driver get orphaned?
We definitely need to consider that but let's first wait for Arend to
comment.
--
https://patchwork.kernel.org/project/linux-wireless/list/
https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/developers/documentation/submittingpatches
On 10/6/2023 2:21 PM, Kalle Valo wrote:
> Julian Calaby <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> Hi Dmitry,
>>
>> (relevant people and lists CC'd)
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 6, 2023 at 3:16 AM Dmitry Antipov <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Kalle,
>>>
>>> what's an actual status of brcm80211 driver? It seems
>>> that the relevant MAINTAINERS entries are no longer
>>> useful, and [1] states that Broadcom is just "disappeared".
>>
>> Arend hasn't posted since February:
>> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-wireless/[email protected]/
>>
>> Franky is still reviewing things as of early August:
>> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-wireless/CA+8PC_evb-6Y3dKnAN4BN=ODEVxY5-cDb6Lc72u0j1WBtx7p1A@mail.gmail.com/
>>
>> Hante hasn't posted since 2018:
>> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-wireless/[email protected]/
>>
>> Hector Martin has a bunch of Apple-specific patches downstream in the
>> Asahi Linux kernel and has been looking for guidance on how to
>> upstream it without any real answers:
>> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-wireless/[email protected]/
>>
>> There's also speculation that the Raspberry Pi people have downstream
>> patches too, but I haven't been able to find anything concrete in a
>> very brief search.
>
> Thanks for the research, that is helpful.
>
>> Finally, the Cypress / Infineon people appear to be uninterested in
>> discussing the driver.
>>
>> I think it's pretty safe to say that this driver is nearly
>> unmaintained by Broadcom, definitely unmaintained by Cypress /
>> Infineon and Arend is unable to answer questions relating to anything
>> beyond the code as-written.
>>
>> Kalle, should this driver get orphaned?
>
> We definitely need to consider that but let's first wait for Arend to
> comment.
Using my personal email account to comment. Broadcom has pulled away
most resources from the brcm80211 drivers as there is no business
interest for it and it turned into a one-fifth man show as I was granted
to work one day a week on brcm80211. Nice theory but in practice other
work always takes priority. So "nearly unmaintained" is no exaggeration.
I probably can not meet the expectations some people in the community
have regarding driver maintainers, but I can still review patch
submissions although I should keep a better eye on the list to do that.
It would not be my choice to abandon brcm80211, but if my contributions
are considered insufficient than I will accept that fact.
Ever since Infineon took over Cypress wifi business things turned quiet
soon. Their website still claims brcmfmac is the driver to use. Earlier
this year I did have contact with them to hear whether they were
committed to the driver. At least I got an answer, but not much more
than that.
Regards,
Arend
On 2023/10/10 5:22, Arend Van Spriel wrote:
> On 10/6/2023 2:21 PM, Kalle Valo wrote:
>> Julian Calaby <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>>> Hi Dmitry,
>>>
>>> (relevant people and lists CC'd)
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 6, 2023 at 3:16 AM Dmitry Antipov <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Kalle,
>>>>
>>>> what's an actual status of brcm80211 driver? It seems
>>>> that the relevant MAINTAINERS entries are no longer
>>>> useful, and [1] states that Broadcom is just "disappeared".
>>>
>>> Arend hasn't posted since February:
>>> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-wireless/[email protected]/
>>>
>>> Franky is still reviewing things as of early August:
>>> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-wireless/CA+8PC_evb-6Y3dKnAN4BN=ODEVxY5-cDb6Lc72u0j1WBtx7p1A@mail.gmail.com/
>>>
>>> Hante hasn't posted since 2018:
>>> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-wireless/[email protected]/
>>>
>>> Hector Martin has a bunch of Apple-specific patches downstream in the
>>> Asahi Linux kernel and has been looking for guidance on how to
>>> upstream it without any real answers:
>>> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-wireless/[email protected]/
>>>
>>> There's also speculation that the Raspberry Pi people have downstream
>>> patches too, but I haven't been able to find anything concrete in a
>>> very brief search.
>>
>> Thanks for the research, that is helpful.
>>
>>> Finally, the Cypress / Infineon people appear to be uninterested in
>>> discussing the driver.
>>>
>>> I think it's pretty safe to say that this driver is nearly
>>> unmaintained by Broadcom, definitely unmaintained by Cypress /
>>> Infineon and Arend is unable to answer questions relating to anything
>>> beyond the code as-written.
>>>
>>> Kalle, should this driver get orphaned?
>>
>> We definitely need to consider that but let's first wait for Arend to
>> comment.
>
> Using my personal email account to comment. Broadcom has pulled away
> most resources from the brcm80211 drivers as there is no business
> interest for it and it turned into a one-fifth man show as I was granted
> to work one day a week on brcm80211. Nice theory but in practice other
> work always takes priority. So "nearly unmaintained" is no exaggeration.
> I probably can not meet the expectations some people in the community
> have regarding driver maintainers, but I can still review patch
> submissions although I should keep a better eye on the list to do that.
> It would not be my choice to abandon brcm80211, but if my contributions
> are considered insufficient than I will accept that fact.
>
> Ever since Infineon took over Cypress wifi business things turned quiet
> soon. Their website still claims brcmfmac is the driver to use. Earlier
> this year I did have contact with them to hear whether they were
> committed to the driver. At least I got an answer, but not much more
> than that.
>
Okay, so pragmatically, this needs a new maintainer. Would you be okay
with adding myself as a co-maintainer? You could leave yourself as a
maintainer or downgrade yourself to reviewer.
We should also remove the other two Broadcom folks from the maintainers
list if they are effectively gone.
I expect my patch submissions to be reviewed by someone (in general); if
we do this, that could be anyone (not just you), therefore unblocking
upstreaming of Apple hardware related changes.
From my point of view, pragmatically, the most useful things that a
Broadcom employee can do to help this driver out without being an
outright maintainer are:
- Answering questions (about firmwares, compats, hardware revisions,
debugging, etc.) in a reasonably timely manner
- Testing on a wider variety of hardware
If someone can at least validate that my firmware version gates and such
are done properly, then there's a chance we won't randomly break other
chips. If someone can actively test on other hardware, even better. If I
end up being the only one keeping the driver afloat, as I mentioned in
my other reply, all I can promise is decent support on chips Apple uses.
- Hector
Arend Van Spriel <[email protected]> writes:
>>> I think it's pretty safe to say that this driver is nearly
>>> unmaintained by Broadcom, definitely unmaintained by Cypress /
>>> Infineon and Arend is unable to answer questions relating to anything
>>> beyond the code as-written.
>>>
>>> Kalle, should this driver get orphaned?
>> We definitely need to consider that but let's first wait for Arend
>> to
>> comment.
>
> Using my personal email account to comment. Broadcom has pulled away
> most resources from the brcm80211 drivers as there is no business
> interest for it and it turned into a one-fifth man show as I was
> granted to work one day a week on brcm80211. Nice theory but in
> practice other work always takes priority.
Sorry to hear that. I know big corporations well enough that it doesn't
work like that in reality :/
> So "nearly unmaintained" is no exaggeration. I probably can not meet
> the expectations some people in the community have regarding driver
> maintainers, but I can still review patch submissions although I
> should keep a better eye on the list to do that. It would not be my
> choice to abandon brcm80211, but if my contributions are considered
> insufficient than I will accept that fact.
I definitely would want you to continue maintaining brcm80211! I know
how difficult it can be between a rock and a hard place so I value your
contributions, and understand sometimes you are not able to react
quickly (or at all).
What about Franky and Hante? I wonder if we should remove them? Or
convert them to reviewers?
Also I'm thinking should we change the driver status to Odd Fixes:
Odd Fixes: It has a maintainer but they don't have time to do
much other than throw the odd patch in. See below..
Of course there's no practical difference what the driver status is but
I nowadays try to keep the maintainers file up-to-date.
--
https://patchwork.kernel.org/project/linux-wireless/list/
https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/developers/documentation/submittingpatches