I can't seem to email the list. What's up with this?
SMTP error from remote mail server after MAIL
FROM:<[email protected]> SIZE=1681:
host vger.kernel.org [209.132.176.167]: 553 5.7.1
Hello [69.50.231.8], for your MAIL FROM address
<[email protected]> policy analysis reported:
Your address is not liked source for email
____________________________________________________________________________________
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From: Marc Perkel <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:58:54 -0800 (PST)
> I can't seem to email the list. What's up with this?
>
> SMTP error from remote mail server after MAIL
> FROM:<[email protected]> SIZE=1681:
> host vger.kernel.org [209.132.176.167]: 553 5.7.1
> Hello [69.50.231.8], for your MAIL FROM address
> <[email protected]> policy analysis reported:
> Your address is not liked source for email
I banned you from the site entirely because your email
address keeps bouncing from time to time, repeatedly,
and instead of contacting us and asking why you just
blindly resubscribe.
I figured that blocking you entirely would get your
attention and finally make you try to contact us.
The most recent reason I had to delete you from the
list was:
1163127092 davem [email protected] linux-kernel Has bogus block on [email protected]
Every posting made by Simon gets blocked by your site.
Previously the reason was:
1155683148 davem perkel.com linux-kernel blocks the string 'patches', what a joke
And before that I was seeing:
1136501663 davem [email protected] linux-kernel 421 Lost incoming connection: The error was detected in line 3.
You really need to fixup your email setup before I will allow
you to resubscribe.
On 2006-11-14, David Miller wrote:
[]
> I banned you from the site entirely because your email
> address keeps bouncing from time to time, repeatedly,
> and instead of contacting us and asking why you just
> blindly resubscribe.
>
> I figured that blocking you entirely would get your
> attention and finally make you try to contact us.
[]
Would you like, David, explain why my messages sometimes go to /dev/null?
Last one was <http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.test/3360>, while
previous message with same headers and e-mail was ok. And this
was dropped even via gmane.org nntp posting, as well as with lkml in cc.
Thanks.
While using gmane.org news is very nice to read, i have problems with
adding lkml in cc list, when i post. That is because gmane is replacing
"newsgroup" header with "To" one, and my news user agent is replacing "Cc"
with "To", and not add lkml to it, when sending copies my e-mail.
So, i add "Mail-Followup-To", "Reply-to" is taboo on vger.kernel.org,
and former is not supported by popular MUAs ;\
Maybe a should hack my news client to do some magic with this, don't
know yet.
____
So you are banning me from the list because my server
returned a 421 temporary error? You have to be out of
your fucking mind!
1136501663 davem [email protected] linux-kernel 421
Lost incoming connection: The error was detected in
line 3.
--- David Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: Marc Perkel <[email protected]>
> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:58:54 -0800 (PST)
>
> > I can't seem to email the list. What's up with
> this?
> >
> > SMTP error from remote mail server after MAIL
> > FROM:<[email protected]> SIZE=1681:
> > host vger.kernel.org [209.132.176.167]: 553
> 5.7.1
> > Hello [69.50.231.8], for your MAIL FROM address
> > <[email protected]> policy analysis reported:
> > Your address is not liked source for email
>
> I banned you from the site entirely because your
> email
> address keeps bouncing from time to time,
> repeatedly,
> and instead of contacting us and asking why you just
> blindly resubscribe.
>
> I figured that blocking you entirely would get your
> attention and finally make you try to contact us.
>
> The most recent reason I had to delete you from the
> list was:
>
> 1163127092 davem [email protected] linux-kernel Has
> bogus block on [email protected]
>
> Every posting made by Simon gets blocked by your
> site.
>
> Previously the reason was:
>
> 1155683148 davem perkel.com linux-kernel blocks the
> string 'patches', what a joke
>
> And before that I was seeing:
>
> 1136501663 davem [email protected] linux-kernel 421
> Lost incoming connection: The error was detected in
> line 3.
>
> You really need to fixup your email setup before I
> will allow
> you to resubscribe.
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
From: Marc Perkel <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:54:25 -0800 (PST)
> So you are banning me from the list because my server
> returned a 421 temporary error? You have to be out of
> your fucking mind!
>
> 1136501663 davem [email protected] linux-kernel 421
> Lost incoming connection: The error was detected in
> line 3.
Your site was generating 500 errors too.
But that's not the reason I banned you.
The reason I banned you, and I apply this rule consistently, is that
you ignored when you were removed from the list. Instead of
contacting the postmaster and asking why, you just blindly
resubscribed yourself again.
When we remove you, we do it because your email address really is
bouncing.
One should always contact the postmaster for more information when
they are unsubscribed from the mailing list.
--- David Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: Marc Perkel <[email protected]>
> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:54:25 -0800 (PST)
>
> > So you are banning me from the list because my
> server
> > returned a 421 temporary error? You have to be out
> of
> > your fucking mind!
> >
> > 1136501663 davem [email protected] linux-kernel 421
> > Lost incoming connection: The error was detected
> in
> > line 3.
>
> Your site was generating 500 errors too.
>
> But that's not the reason I banned you.
>
> The reason I banned you, and I apply this rule
> consistently, is that
> you ignored when you were removed from the list.
> Instead of
> contacting the postmaster and asking why, you just
> blindly
> resubscribed yourself again.
>
> When we remove you, we do it because your email
> address really is
> bouncing.
>
> One should always contact the postmaster for more
> information when
> they are unsubscribed from the mailing list.
>
So what? Yes sometimes the spam coming through this
list triggers a bounce. So what? What is an occasional
bounce message a problem for you? Why don't you just
ignore a few bounces? The list seems to be far more
tollerant of spam than it is if a message bounces
every now and then.
majordomo is an ancient piece of software. I don't
understand why this list doesn't use a more modern
platform like Mailman that automatically deal with
bounce processing. It tracks bounces and it can tell
if a message is a fluke bounce or if an email address
it permanently down. For some reason you are making a
huge deal over nothing. You act as if a bounce is a
crime.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
From: Marc Perkel <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:12:56 -0800 (PST)
> So what? Yes sometimes the spam coming through this
> list triggers a bounce. So what?
I verified each and every time that I removed you (at least 6 or 7
seperate occaisions) that your site was bouncing repeatedly for
completely normal postings, not spam.
And I don't remove when you bounce "once", I do it when your address
generates a series of bounces that doesn't look like it will end any
time soon.
You've had to resubscribe multiple times, at what point would it have
occured you to ask postmaster here what the problem was so that you
could go ahead and correct it?
Your address caused problems on a continual and repeated basis.
We're not talking about isolated bounces.
Anyways, all of this talk is about you defending yourself. There has
been no talk so far of correcting the problem, what you're going to do
in the future to prevent this from reoccuring so that I can remove the
block of your email address.
And a maybe even a nice little "sorry about that".
--- David Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: Marc Perkel <[email protected]>
> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:12:56 -0800 (PST)
>
> > So what? Yes sometimes the spam coming through
> this
> > list triggers a bounce. So what?
>
> I verified each and every time that I removed you
> (at least 6 or 7
> seperate occaisions) that your site was bouncing
> repeatedly for
> completely normal postings, not spam.
>
> And I don't remove when you bounce "once", I do it
> when your address
> generates a series of bounces that doesn't look like
> it will end any
> time soon.
>
> You've had to resubscribe multiple times, at what
> point would it have
> occured you to ask postmaster here what the problem
> was so that you
> could go ahead and correct it?
>
> Your address caused problems on a continual and
> repeated basis.
> We're not talking about isolated bounces.
>
> Anyways, all of this talk is about you defending
> yourself. There has
> been no talk so far of correcting the problem, what
> you're going to do
> in the future to prevent this from reoccuring so
> that I can remove the
> block of your email address.
>
> And a maybe even a nice little "sorry about that".
>
If anyone should be sorry it should be you for taking
me off the list in the first place. Why are you
removing users every time a message bounces? That's
extremely abnormal. I am part of a lot of lists and I
have never seen anyone delete people based on a
trivial number of bounces. Especially on a list that
has as uch spam as this list does.
I bounce some messages - so what?
The problem is that if this list kicks people off
wrongly them the fault is with the list configuration.
What you should be doing is fixing the list and not
kicking people off the list.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
From: Marc Perkel <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:54:36 -0800 (PST)
> If anyone should be sorry it should be you for taking
> me off the list in the first place. Why are you
> removing users every time a message bounces? That's
> extremely abnormal.
First, you didn't read my email. It wasn't "every bounce", it was
every time your site generated a significant number of bounces all at
once without "any sign of it ending any time soon."
I've been doing this for more than 12 years, I know the difference
between a bounce in response to SPAM and a bounce due to a site or
email address being non-functional or busted.
Feel free to keep defending yourself and ignoring what I have to say
and I'll feel free to keep you on the ban list.
When you run your own mailing lists, you can use whatever mailing list
software you want and enforce whatever policies you want.
Al Viro has weighed in on this topic before, perhaps he can give you a
little bit insight on of his opinion on this matter which is shared
by a large number of other linux-kernel users as well.
On Tue, Nov 14, 2006 at 04:54:25PM -0800, Marc Perkel wrote:
>
> So you are banning me from the list because my server
> returned a 421 temporary error? You have to be out of
> your fucking mind!
>
> 1136501663 davem [email protected] linux-kernel 421 Lost incoming connection: The error was detected in line 3.
Messages start to BOUNCE with that only after the condition
has been active for 5 consequtive days.
(Standards define 3 days queue wait time minimum.)
If your email server has a temporary glitch and it does
decide to report to remotes that "421 I am broken, try latter"
that is fine AS LONG AS it gets fixed within 3 days.
If the condition persists for 5 days, we do remove all
subscribers at given domain AND the accumulated queue
to them without any further messages to anybody.
(They are not receiving the messages, so there is no way to
notify them in forecastable future.)
Do you have any idea of how many messages are in the queue
at that time directed to recipients not receiving them ?
Depending on the week: 1300 - 2000 !
/Matti Aarnio -- one of <postmaster at vger.kernel.org>