> Why is reiser4 still not in a vanilla kernel for testing. I have had
> to apply the reiser4 patches from -mm kernels to vanilla based
> patchset for over a year now. Reiser4 works fine, what will it take to
> get it included in vanilla? Here is a patch to add reiser4 to
> 2.6.27-rc1:
>
> http://zen-sources.org/files/reiser4-for-2.6.27-rc1.patch
>
> -Ryan
A good thing for a start would be to rename the whole thing to something
else, for obvious reasons.
Tim
On Mon 2008-08-04 14:26:21, Tim Tassonis wrote:
> >Why is reiser4 still not in a vanilla kernel for
> >testing. I have had
> >to apply the reiser4 patches from -mm kernels to
> >vanilla based
> >patchset for over a year now. Reiser4 works fine, what
> >will it take to
> >get it included in vanilla? Here is a patch to add
> >reiser4 to
> >2.6.27-rc1:
> >
> >http://zen-sources.org/files/reiser4-for-2.6.27-rc1.patch
> >
> >-Ryan
>
> A good thing for a start would be to rename the whole
> thing to something else, for obvious reasons.
Whats wrong with reiser4 name?
Pavel
(or am I feeding a troll?)
--
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 02:58:08PM +0200, Pavel Machek wrote:
> On Mon 2008-08-04 14:26:21, Tim Tassonis wrote:
> > >Why is reiser4 still not in a vanilla kernel for
> > >testing. I have had
> > >to apply the reiser4 patches from -mm kernels to
> > >vanilla based
> > >patchset for over a year now. Reiser4 works fine, what
> > >will it take to
> > >get it included in vanilla? Here is a patch to add
> > >reiser4 to
> > >2.6.27-rc1:
> > >
> > >http://zen-sources.org/files/reiser4-for-2.6.27-rc1.patch
> > >
> > >-Ryan
> >
> > A good thing for a start would be to rename the whole
> > thing to something else, for obvious reasons.
>
> Whats wrong with reiser4 name?
>
> Pavel
> (or am I feeding a troll?)
Not wanting a new filesystem named after a convicted murderer is not
a trollish suggestion.
cu
Adrian
--
"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 9:18 AM, Adrian Bunk <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 02:58:08PM +0200, Pavel Machek wrote:
>> On Mon 2008-08-04 14:26:21, Tim Tassonis wrote:
>> > >Why is reiser4 still not in a vanilla kernel for
>> > >testing. I have had
>> > >to apply the reiser4 patches from -mm kernels to
>> > >vanilla based
>> > >patchset for over a year now. Reiser4 works fine, what
>> > >will it take to
>> > >get it included in vanilla? Here is a patch to add
>> > >reiser4 to
>> > >2.6.27-rc1:
>> > >
>> > >http://zen-sources.org/files/reiser4-for-2.6.27-rc1.patch
>> > >
>> > >-Ryan
>> >
>> > A good thing for a start would be to rename the whole
>> > thing to something else, for obvious reasons.
>>
>> Whats wrong with reiser4 name?
>>
>> Pavel
>> (or am I feeding a troll?)
>
> Not wanting a new filesystem named after a convicted murderer is not
> a trollish suggestion.
Regardless of the murder conviction, I still believe that the guy
should get credit for his work.
Reiserfs is a name that we all know of, regardless of how current we
are with the news (although you'd have to be PRETTY far behind if you
don't know about the crime)
The current reiserfs filesystems aren't being renamed -- are they??
Does it really hurt to keep his name there? I think it should just go as-is.
-Mike
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 09:24:58AM -0400, Michael Krufky wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 9:18 AM, Adrian Bunk <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 02:58:08PM +0200, Pavel Machek wrote:
> >> On Mon 2008-08-04 14:26:21, Tim Tassonis wrote:
> >> > >Why is reiser4 still not in a vanilla kernel for
> >> > >testing. I have had
> >> > >to apply the reiser4 patches from -mm kernels to
> >> > >vanilla based
> >> > >patchset for over a year now. Reiser4 works fine, what
> >> > >will it take to
> >> > >get it included in vanilla? Here is a patch to add
> >> > >reiser4 to
> >> > >2.6.27-rc1:
> >> > >
> >> > >http://zen-sources.org/files/reiser4-for-2.6.27-rc1.patch
> >> > >
> >> > >-Ryan
> >> >
> >> > A good thing for a start would be to rename the whole
> >> > thing to something else, for obvious reasons.
> >>
> >> Whats wrong with reiser4 name?
> >>
> >> Pavel
> >> (or am I feeding a troll?)
> >
> > Not wanting a new filesystem named after a convicted murderer is not
> > a trollish suggestion.
>
> Regardless of the murder conviction, I still believe that the guy
> should get credit for his work.
Other filesystems are usually not named after people, e.g. ext2 is not
named cardfs2 and jffs2 is not named woodhousefs.
> Reiserfs is a name that we all know of, regardless of how current we
> are with the news (although you'd have to be PRETTY far behind if you
> don't know about the crime)
>
> The current reiserfs filesystems aren't being renamed -- are they??
>
> Does it really hurt to keep his name there? I think it should just go as-is.
You can agree or disagree with Tim, but it's not a trollish suggestion.
> -Mike
cu
Adrian
--
"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed
Michael Krufky wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 9:18 AM, Adrian Bunk <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 02:58:08PM +0200, Pavel Machek wrote:
>>> On Mon 2008-08-04 14:26:21, Tim Tassonis wrote:
>>>>> Why is reiser4 still not in a vanilla kernel for
>>>>> testing. I have had
>>>>> to apply the reiser4 patches from -mm kernels to
>>>>> vanilla based
>>>>> patchset for over a year now. Reiser4 works fine, what
>>>>> will it take to
>>>>> get it included in vanilla? Here is a patch to add
>>>>> reiser4 to
>>>>> 2.6.27-rc1:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://zen-sources.org/files/reiser4-for-2.6.27-rc1.patch
>>>>>
>>>>> -Ryan
>>>> A good thing for a start would be to rename the whole
>>>> thing to something else, for obvious reasons.
>>> Whats wrong with reiser4 name?
>>>
>>> Pavel
>>> (or am I feeding a troll?)
>> Not wanting a new filesystem named after a convicted murderer is not
>> a trollish suggestion.
>
>
> Regardless of the murder conviction, I still believe that the guy
> should get credit for his work.
>
> Reiserfs is a name that we all know of, regardless of how current we
> are with the news (although you'd have to be PRETTY far behind if you
> don't know about the crime)
>
> The current reiserfs filesystems aren't being renamed -- are they??
>
> Does it really hurt to keep his name there? I think it should just go as-is.
Well, in my opinion, there is little point in renaming reiserfs 3 now,
as it is basically obsolete anyway and I suppose will disappear over time.
As reiser4 is not yet in and would need some rework before inclusion
anyway, the name could be fixed easily and I do think it would be a bit
irritating to just completely ignore real-world issues.
As for giving credit, I wasn't advocating in removing authorship
attribution (that's what giving credit means to me), but calling the
filesystem after himself was always a bit egocentric anyway. We don't
have t'sofs, engelfs, molnarsched and stuff like that.
And yes, I think Hans lost his right to decide over the name because of
what he has done. That is no disrespect for his work, only for him as
person in general, and I do strongly disrespect him as a person.
Tim
>
> -Mike
Adrian Bunk wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 09:24:58AM -0400, Michael Krufky wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 9:18 AM, Adrian Bunk <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 02:58:08PM +0200, Pavel Machek wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon 2008-08-04 14:26:21, Tim Tassonis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Why is reiser4 still not in a vanilla kernel for
>>>>>> testing. I have had
>>>>>> to apply the reiser4 patches from -mm kernels to
>>>>>> vanilla based
>>>>>> patchset for over a year now. Reiser4 works fine, what
>>>>>> will it take to
>>>>>> get it included in vanilla? Here is a patch to add
>>>>>> reiser4 to
>>>>>> 2.6.27-rc1:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://zen-sources.org/files/reiser4-for-2.6.27-rc1.patch
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Ryan
>>>>>>
>>>>> A good thing for a start would be to rename the whole
>>>>> thing to something else, for obvious reasons.
>>>>>
>>>> Whats wrong with reiser4 name?
>>>>
>>>> Pavel
>>>> (or am I feeding a troll?)
>>>>
>>> Not wanting a new filesystem named after a convicted murderer is not
>>> a trollish suggestion.
>>>
>> Regardless of the murder conviction, I still believe that the guy
>> should get credit for his work.
>>
>
> Other filesystems are usually not named after people, e.g. ext2 is not
> named cardfs2 and jffs2 is not named woodhousefs.
>
>
>> Reiserfs is a name that we all know of, regardless of how current we
>> are with the news (although you'd have to be PRETTY far behind if you
>> don't know about the crime)
>>
>> The current reiserfs filesystems aren't being renamed -- are they??
>>
>> Does it really hurt to keep his name there? I think it should just go as-is.
>>
>
> You can agree or disagree with Tim, but it's not a trollish suggestion.
I agree -- it is not a trollish suggestion. I just wanted to express my
opinion.
I dont feel strongly either way, but since it was his work I felt that
his naming should stand.
Meanwhile, it's obvious that nobody will agree with that point.
If we're going to change the name, why not add some sick humor and call
it MurderFS? That will really leave a mark on people. :-P
-Mike
> > Regardless of the murder conviction, I still believe that the guy
> > should get credit for his work.
>
> Other filesystems are usually not named after people, e.g. ext2 is not
> named cardfs2 and jffs2 is not named woodhousefs.
Up to the author really isn't it. And dwmw2fs would be hard to pronounce.
> > Does it really hurt to keep his name there? I think it should just go as-is.
>
> You can agree or disagree with Tim, but it's not a trollish suggestion.
Not however a sensible one - Hans Reiser is the architect of reiser4
regardless of what else he may be. Changing a label doesn't change that
fact.
Alan
> And yes, I think Hans lost his right to decide over the name because of
> what he has done. That is no disrespect for his work, only for him as
> person in general, and I do strongly disrespect him as a person.
So should ever reissue of a work by Gary Glitter have the name removed
from the cover, every opera by Wagner have the name removed for his
attitudes ?
History is a one way street, and you might as well have the fs known the
way it is so that people remember "reiser oh wasn't he the guy who.." -
unless you are trying to market the fs I guess.
Alan
Adrian Bunk <[email protected]> writes:
> is not a trollish suggestion.
If trollish is defined as "likely to create an endless thread
that will do absolutely nothing to bring Linux forward" then it
was definitely trollish.
-Andi
Alan Cox wrote:
>> And yes, I think Hans lost his right to decide over the name because of
>> what he has done. That is no disrespect for his work, only for him as
>> person in general, and I do strongly disrespect him as a person.
>
> So should ever reissue of a work by Gary Glitter have the name removed
> from the cover, every opera by Wagner have the name removed for his
> attitudes ?
>
> History is a one way street, and you might as well have the fs known the
> way it is so that people remember "reiser oh wasn't he the guy who.." -
> unless you are trying to market the fs I guess.
>
> Alan
Well I think I said, I wouldn't be in favour of renaming reiser3, also
for above reasons (although I didn't mention them).
I am in favour of renaming reiser4 exactly because it is not yet in and
naming a filesystem after its author is not as automatic as putting the
name of the singer on a record sleeve.
And I do give a dog's turd about what Hans might think about this.
It won't be my decision, anyway....
Tim
Andi Kleen wrote:
> Adrian Bunk <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> is not a trollish suggestion.
>
> If trollish is defined as "likely to create an endless thread
> that will do absolutely nothing to bring Linux forward" then it
> was definitely trollish.
Ok, I will refrain from further commenting on this and apologize for
starting this discussion.
Tim
>
> -Andi
> If we're going to change the name, why not add some sick humor and call
> it MurderFS? That will really leave a mark on people. :-P
I'd rather have a killerfs :-)
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Tim Tassonis <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am in favour of renaming reiser4 exactly because it is not yet in and
> naming a filesystem after its author is not as automatic as putting the name
> of the singer on a record sleeve.
There is no point in renaming the filesystem, its already known as
reiser4, it should stay that way.
-Ryan
Ryan Hope wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Tim Tassonis <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I am in favour of renaming reiser4 exactly because it is not yet in and
>> naming a filesystem after its author is not as automatic as putting the name
>> of the singer on a record sleeve.
>
> There is no point in renaming the filesystem, its already known as
> reiser4, it should stay that way.
One last (batch of) comment(s):
I am not advocating renaming the existing -mm implementation to
something else so it can rot there under a different name.
I can very well live with reiser4 not making it into mainline, I never
used reiser3 (only once for two, and after a power outage rendered the
fs unusable and fsck did fsck all, I chose reliability over
"performance") and am quite happy with ext3 for years and btrfs looks
promising, too.
I was merely thinking: If reiser4 really is all that great and some
people want it desperately in mainline, apart from fixing outstanding
issues or convincing Al etc there are none left, they might rename it to
reduce the controversy potential over its inclusion. I would think that
for people desperately wanting it in, the features of reiser4 are more
important than the name and the name is probably somewhat "difficult".
Renaming something for political reasons is certainly something you
shouldn't do aggressively, but I would favour it in this case:
- For mainline, it's no rename, as it is not in yet.
- I don't like having the author's name as the fs's name anyway.
- It might save some unnecessary bad press .
On the other hand, I guess the real victims probably don't care and so
it wouldn't bother me that much either.
Tim
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 11:24 PM, Tim Tassonis <[email protected]> wrote:
> I can very well live with reiser4 not making it into mainline, I never used
> reiser3 (only once for two, and after a power outage rendered the fs
> unusable and fsck did fsck all, I chose reliability over "performance") and
> am quite happy with ext3 for years and btrfs looks promising, too.
I'm one who think reiser3 is great, and can't wait to see reiser4 in
the mainstream, so please don't just assume reiserfs is obsolete. It's
very much usable and very stable. So, if you don't use it, please
don't comment negatively on. And I am who is very appreciative of
Hans's contribution to Linux giving it a great journaling filesystem
to start with. Reiser4 may have tangent off track and annoyed many
smart developers, but please give it a chance to make Linux even
better.
Thanks,
Jeff.
the name of a filesystem should have no bearing on whether or not
people want to include it in mainline, people should not use its name
as an argument against including it
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Tim Tassonis <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ryan Hope wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Tim Tassonis <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am in favour of renaming reiser4 exactly because it is not yet in and
>>> naming a filesystem after its author is not as automatic as putting the
>>> name
>>> of the singer on a record sleeve.
>>
>> There is no point in renaming the filesystem, its already known as
>> reiser4, it should stay that way.
>
> One last (batch of) comment(s):
>
> I am not advocating renaming the existing -mm implementation to something
> else so it can rot there under a different name.
>
> I can very well live with reiser4 not making it into mainline, I never used
> reiser3 (only once for two, and after a power outage rendered the fs
> unusable and fsck did fsck all, I chose reliability over "performance") and
> am quite happy with ext3 for years and btrfs looks promising, too.
>
> I was merely thinking: If reiser4 really is all that great and some people
> want it desperately in mainline, apart from fixing outstanding issues or
> convincing Al etc there are none left, they might rename it to reduce the
> controversy potential over its inclusion. I would think that for people
> desperately wanting it in, the features of reiser4 are more important than
> the name and the name is probably somewhat "difficult".
>
> Renaming something for political reasons is certainly something you
> shouldn't do aggressively, but I would favour it in this case:
> - For mainline, it's no rename, as it is not in yet.
> - I don't like having the author's name as the fs's name anyway.
> - It might save some unnecessary bad press .
>
> On the other hand, I guess the real victims probably don't care and so it
> wouldn't bother me that much either.
>
> Tim
>
>
Adrian Bunk wrote:
> Other filesystems are usually not named after people, e.g. ext2 is not
> named cardfs2 and jffs2 is not named woodhousefs.
>
Bring back xiafs!
J
Alan Cox wrote:
>> And yes, I think Hans lost his right to decide over the name because of
>> what he has done. That is no disrespect for his work, only for him as
>> person in general, and I do strongly disrespect him as a person.
>
> So should ever reissue of a work by Gary Glitter have the name removed
> from the cover, every opera by Wagner have the name removed for his
> attitudes ?
>
> History is a one way street, and you might as well have the fs known the
> way it is so that people remember "reiser oh wasn't he the guy who.." -
> unless you are trying to market the fs I guess.
>
A one way street indeed, I see no reason to rename the f/s since the
association will remain. People who follow Linux will know anyway, and I
doubt most people will remember one more guy who killed his wife during
a nasty divorce. Sad to say there's a lot of that around.
--
Bill Davidsen <[email protected]>
"We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot
Jeremy Fitzhardinge wrote:
> Adrian Bunk wrote:
>> Other filesystems are usually not named after people, e.g. ext2 is not
>> named cardfs2 and jffs2 is not named woodhousefs.
>>
>
> Bring back xiafs!
>
I believe that Linus said he would include it if someone brought it up
to date. Back when it was dropped because no one maintained it.
--
Bill Davidsen <[email protected]>
"We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot