On Sat, 04 Jan 2003 18:44:38 +0000, Richard Stallman wrote:
Richard, you are missing the entire point, again. You must understand
that we all love free software and its benefits, that is why we all
strive to make the Linux kernel a success. The problem is not everything
is open source and if a proprietary application is just as good why not
use it instead of wasting the time and effort of to create a clone? That
seems to be all GNU is doing. Also as Larry McVoy introduced, developing
programs cost money and you can't always make the money needed to do
development costs. I do think it a good idea though that if you must
make some proprietary for costs atleast OSS it afterwards. Frankly, some
people don't care what they use. You're not going to change the world
well actually you *have* in a way but you're not going to change the
entire world.
> You can't have freedom while using ClearCase, because it is non-free
> software. What we really need is a free replacement for it. Will
> people write one? Our main influence on whether people do this is by
> what we say. A strong Free Software Movement will inspire more people
> to reject non-free software and write free replacements.
Basicaaly all you say is that first line except fill ClearCase with any
proprietary thing. The point is it makes no sense to clone something
unless you're going to make it better, making it 'free' don't count. I
am talking in features category. I understand our beliefs differ but I
really wish you could stop being so determined (if that's a nice way to
put it) and atleast except some of our decisions and beliefs as we
pretty much have to deal with yours.
> Allowing non-free modules (whether they are open-source or not)
> weakens the impetus for people to make free extensions to Linux. The
> general attitude Linux developers take towards non-free software also
> weakens it. Your own message, citing this gap in Linux, will tend to
> discourage people from working to close the gap.
>
> All else being equal, I'm glad that you use a variant of the GNU
> system, but what system you use is not really important except to you.
> If you used HP-UX or Solaris, it would be your loss, not our
> community's loss. Spurring the broader development of free software
> should be higher priority than keeping you as a user.
>
> I'm saying that if you truly have a just cause, you don't need a
hammer
> or a sickle to force people to see things your way. Intelligent
people
> will have no choice but to follow your lead.
>
> Since our views have little in common with Communism, it is remarkable
> that our enemies sometimes call us Communists. Perhaps they do this
> because it is easier to attack Communism than confront our real views.
>
> It is the system of non-free software that resembles Stalinism. For
> more about this, see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-free.html.
>
> Visionaries should have faith in their own vision.
>
> Real visionaries know that just having a vision does not change
> society. Sustained effort is necessary.
--
Steven
[email protected]
GnuPG Fingerprint: 9357 F403 B0A1 E18D 86D5 2230 BB92 6D64 D516 0A94
Richard, you are missing the entire point, again. You must understand
that we all love free software and its benefits, that is why we all
strive to make the Linux kernel a success. The problem is not everything
is open source and if a proprietary application is just as good why not
use it instead of wasting the time and effort of to create a clone?
The benefit of free software that I value is freedom to share the
software, freedom to change it, freedom to cooperate with others in
developing it. That's why, for me, the success of any particular kernel
is not the most important thing--and why writing a free clone of
a non-free program or system is hardly a waste.
Developing programs does not "cost money"--that is just one way to do
it. But sometimes a person is in a position where he can develop a
certain program only if he makes it non-free to raise money. If you
are in such a position, unless you are going to make the program free
software soon after, then the best thing you can do is not develop it
at all. Someone else will develop a free program to do the job.
Freedom is worth the wait.
On Sun, 05 Jan 2003, Richard Stallman wrote:
> Developing programs does not "cost money"--that is just one way to do
> it. But sometimes a person is in a position where he can develop a
> certain program only if he makes it non-free to raise money. If you
> are in such a position, unless you are going to make the program free
> software soon after, then the best thing you can do is not develop it
> at all. Someone else will develop a free program to do the job.
> Freedom is worth the wait.
Oh, but my backup can't just wait because the hard disk is
likely to die before someone comes up with a free software that does
better than Tivoli although this is sorta fragile on the systems I
maintain. Are you going to sponsor for RAID-1 for the meanwhile, until
the wait pays off?
--
Matthias Andree
On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Matthias Andree wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Jan 2003, Richard Stallman wrote:
>
> > Developing programs does not "cost money"--that is just one way to do
> > it. But sometimes a person is in a position where he can develop a
> > certain program only if he makes it non-free to raise money. If you
> > are in such a position, unless you are going to make the program free
> > software soon after, then the best thing you can do is not develop it
> > at all. Someone else will develop a free program to do the job.
> > Freedom is worth the wait.
>
> Oh, but my backup can't just wait because the hard disk is
> likely to die before someone comes up with a free software that does
> better than Tivoli although this is sorta fragile on the systems I
> maintain. Are you going to sponsor for RAID-1 for the meanwhile, until
> the wait pays off?
Well for a price you could back up around the world, and have unlimited
amounts of storage per license and have unlimited (loads will limit the
unlimited) clients and have interoporability today. But it is not free
now, but stood a strong chance of happening in 6mo for the basics. The
serious core costly features would take longer to recover. May 18mo of
the next feature, and finally 36mo for the end game.
This is in flux now because ....
Cheers,
Andre Hedrick
LAD Storage Consulting Group
On Mon, 06 Jan 2003, Andre Hedrick wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Matthias Andree wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 05 Jan 2003, Richard Stallman wrote:
> >
> > > Developing programs does not "cost money"--that is just one way to do
> > > it. But sometimes a person is in a position where he can develop a
> > > certain program only if he makes it non-free to raise money. If you
> > > are in such a position, unless you are going to make the program free
> > > software soon after, then the best thing you can do is not develop it
> > > at all. Someone else will develop a free program to do the job.
> > > Freedom is worth the wait.
> >
> > Oh, but my backup can't just wait because the hard disk is
> > likely to die before someone comes up with a free software that does
> > better than Tivoli although this is sorta fragile on the systems I
> > maintain. Are you going to sponsor for RAID-1 for the meanwhile, until
> > the wait pays off?
>
> Well for a price you could back up around the world, and have unlimited
> amounts of storage per license and have unlimited (loads will limit the
> unlimited) clients and have interoporability today. But it is not free
> now, but stood a strong chance of happening in 6mo for the basics. The
> serious core costly features would take longer to recover. May 18mo of
> the next feature, and finally 36mo for the end game.
>
> This is in flux now because ....
Just in case: this was directed towards Richard Stallman, and was meant
to convey the idea that free software of the future doesn't solve the
problem I have today.
Andre, your efforts, ideas and projects are much appreciated, and I've
seen them underestimated, and while I have often (in private, without
telling anyone, luckily) suspected they wouldn't work out that well,
they all proved me wrong and worked MUCH better than I expected.
Don't let your work get peed on by people who want you out of business
or who don't recognize your achievements.
--
Matthias Andree
To LKML:
I have nothing more to say on this issue.
Should anyone have more to say in contest, please ask for a mailing
address and put it in writing. Otherwise, the comments are viewed as
"I'm going to tell your mommy about it".
Regards,
Andre Hedrick, CTO & Founder
iSCSI Software Solutions Provider
http://<Advertising Line Deleted per Request>/
For those who have privately encourage and given permission, thank you.
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Matthias Andree wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Jan 2003, Andre Hedrick wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Matthias Andree wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 05 Jan 2003, Richard Stallman wrote:
> > >
> > > > Developing programs does not "cost money"--that is just one way to do
> > > > it. But sometimes a person is in a position where he can develop a
> > > > certain program only if he makes it non-free to raise money. If you
> > > > are in such a position, unless you are going to make the program free
> > > > software soon after, then the best thing you can do is not develop it
> > > > at all. Someone else will develop a free program to do the job.
> > > > Freedom is worth the wait.
> > >
> > > Oh, but my backup can't just wait because the hard disk is
> > > likely to die before someone comes up with a free software that does
> > > better than Tivoli although this is sorta fragile on the systems I
> > > maintain. Are you going to sponsor for RAID-1 for the meanwhile, until
> > > the wait pays off?
> >
> > Well for a price you could back up around the world, and have unlimited
> > amounts of storage per license and have unlimited (loads will limit the
> > unlimited) clients and have interoporability today. But it is not free
> > now, but stood a strong chance of happening in 6mo for the basics. The
> > serious core costly features would take longer to recover. May 18mo of
> > the next feature, and finally 36mo for the end game.
> >
> > This is in flux now because ....
>
> Just in case: this was directed towards Richard Stallman, and was meant
> to convey the idea that free software of the future doesn't solve the
> problem I have today.
>
>
> Andre, your efforts, ideas and projects are much appreciated, and I've
> seen them underestimated, and while I have often (in private, without
> telling anyone, luckily) suspected they wouldn't work out that well,
> they all proved me wrong and worked MUCH better than I expected.
>
> Don't let your work get peed on by people who want you out of business
> or who don't recognize your achievements.
>
> --
> Matthias Andree
> -
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