There's really no point in forcing in support for all kinds of
optional input devices unless CONFIG_EMBEDDED. Also some of the
selections really broke configs that worked fine before as indicated
by the reports on lkml. Instead select CONFIG_INPUT if CONFIG_VT
is selected so people upgrading from 2.4 using make oldconfig have
a chance to see it if they didn't need CONFIG_INPUT before.
Btw, could we please get a consensus on what CONFIG_EMBEDDED is
supposed to mean? It was introduced to allow compiling code out
for special cases that normal userspace should be able to rely
on like epoll and futexes but people seem to use it as an Aunt Tillie
guard these days..
--- 1.15/drivers/char/Kconfig Wed Jul 16 13:39:32 2003
+++ edited/drivers/char/Kconfig Sun Aug 10 11:17:02 2003
@@ -5,8 +5,8 @@
menu "Character devices"
config VT
- bool "Virtual terminal" if EMBEDDED
- requires INPUT=y
+ bool "Virtual terminal"
+ select INPUT
default y
---help---
If you say Y here, you will get support for terminal devices with
@@ -36,7 +36,7 @@
shiny Linux system :-)
config VT_CONSOLE
- bool "Support for console on virtual terminal" if EMBEDDED
+ bool "Support for console on virtual terminal"
depends on VT
default y
---help---
--- 1.5/drivers/input/Kconfig Wed Jul 16 13:39:32 2003
+++ edited/drivers/input/Kconfig Sun Aug 10 11:15:19 2003
@@ -5,7 +5,7 @@
menu "Input device support"
config INPUT
- tristate "Input devices (needed for keyboard, mouse, ...)" if EMBEDDED
+ tristate "Input devices (needed for keyboard, mouse, ...)"
default y
---help---
Say Y here if you have any input device (mouse, keyboard, tablet,
@@ -27,8 +27,8 @@
comment "Userland interfaces"
config INPUT_MOUSEDEV
- tristate "Mouse interface" if EMBEDDED
+ tristate "Mouse interface"
default y
depends on INPUT
---help---
Say Y here if you want your mouse to be accessible as char devices
@@ -45,8 +45,8 @@
a module, say M here and read <file:Documentation/modules.txt>.
config INPUT_MOUSEDEV_PSAUX
- bool "Provide legacy /dev/psaux device" if EMBEDDED
+ bool "Provide legacy /dev/psaux device"
default y
depends on INPUT_MOUSEDEV
config INPUT_MOUSEDEV_SCREEN_X
===== drivers/input/keyboard/Kconfig 1.6 vs edited =====
--- 1.6/drivers/input/keyboard/Kconfig Wed Jul 16 13:39:32 2003
+++ edited/drivers/input/keyboard/Kconfig Sun Aug 10 11:15:49 2003
@@ -2,7 +2,7 @@
# Input core configuration
#
config INPUT_KEYBOARD
- bool "Keyboards" if EMBEDDED || !X86
+ bool "Keyboards"
default y
depends on INPUT
help
@@ -12,8 +12,8 @@
If unsure, say Y.
config KEYBOARD_ATKBD
- tristate "AT keyboard support" if EMBEDDED || !X86
+ tristate "AT keyboard support"
default y
depends on INPUT && INPUT_KEYBOARD && SERIO
help
Say Y here if you want to use a standard AT or PS/2 keyboard. Usually
===== drivers/input/serio/Kconfig 1.9 vs edited =====
--- 1.9/drivers/input/serio/Kconfig Wed Jul 16 13:39:32 2003
+++ edited/drivers/input/serio/Kconfig Sun Aug 10 11:16:08 2003
@@ -19,8 +19,8 @@
as a module, say M here and read <file:Documentation/modules.txt>.
config SERIO_I8042
- tristate "i8042 PC Keyboard controller" if EMBEDDED || !X86
+ tristate "i8042 PC Keyboard controller"
default y
depends on SERIO
---help---
i8042 is the chip over which the standard AT keyboard and PS/2
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
>
> There's really no point in forcing in support for all kinds of
> optional input devices unless CONFIG_EMBEDDED.
I disagree. We've had too many totally unnecessary bug-reports from
people, and it's just not worth it not having the keyboard and mouse
controller driver.
However, we can certainly improve on it, and the "select INPUT if VT" part
makes fine sense.
Linus
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 09:50:05AM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
>
> On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> >
> > There's really no point in forcing in support for all kinds of
> > optional input devices unless CONFIG_EMBEDDED.
>
> I disagree. We've had too many totally unnecessary bug-reports from
> people, and it's just not worth it not having the keyboard and mouse
> controller driver.
That's because we didn't have the "select INPUT if VT" yet..
Anyone, can we at least get a different option for this thingy then?
CONFIG_EMBEDEDDED is even more wrong in this context than in the
old one.
What about two new options to replace the old CONFIG_EMBEDDED?
- CONFIG_AUNT_TILLIE - for this kind of shoot yourself in the foot
protection
and
- CONFIG_NONSTD_ABI - for the original sense of a kernel so limited
that parts of the usual userland ABI may disappear
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
>
> What about two new options to replace the old CONFIG_EMBEDDED?
If it's just a naming issue for you, then yes, we could change the current
EXPERIMENTAL/BROKEN/EMBEDDED questions around a bit.
So we could split the EMBEDDED question into "STANDARD" (which implies VT,
INPUT layer, PS/2 ATKBD) and "FEATURECOMPLETE" (FUTEX, EPOLL, NET).
Is it worth it? I see EMBEDDED as more of a "STANDARD" thing - for people
who don't care or know, that's a slight safety-net saying "this selects
the things you take for grated".
Linus
> Is it worth it? I see EMBEDDED as more of a "STANDARD" thing - for people
> who don't care or know, that's a slight safety-net saying "this selects
> the things you take for grated".
I'm pretty sure that's not what it was originally intended to be, but
rather what it seems to have become. On the other hand, your
described usage is probably more useful to the typical user.
Why not have DEVELOPER to implement the original intentions of
EMBEDDED?
John.
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 06:57:03PM +0100, John Bradford wrote:
> > Is it worth it? I see EMBEDDED as more of a "STANDARD" thing - for people
> > who don't care or know, that's a slight safety-net saying "this selects
> > the things you take for grated".
>
> I'm pretty sure that's not what it was originally intended to be, but
> rather what it seems to have become. On the other hand, your
> described usage is probably more useful to the typical user.
>
> Why not have DEVELOPER to implement the original intentions of
> EMBEDDED?
I think I like CONFIG_NONSTD_ABI better.
> > There's really no point in forcing in support for all kinds of
> > optional input devices unless CONFIG_EMBEDDED.
>
> I disagree. We've had too many totally unnecessary bug-reports from
> people, and it's just not worth it not having the keyboard and mouse
> controller driver.
>
> However, we can certainly improve on it, and the "select INPUT if VT" part
> makes fine sense.
One thing I like to ask is that you removed the if EMBEDDED | !X86 from
VGA_CONSOLE. To my knowledge no one had problems with enabling vga console
before the EMBEDDED changes. The reason I ask is because as it stands the
configuration is forcing everyone on intel to enable the vga console. Even
when you want to just run framebuffer console. Most newbie users will not
know that they have to go back and enable "Embedded" support on a desktop
machine just to disable vgacon.
This is important because on the intel platform people are moving to
framebuffer console. Also it would not shock me to see in one or two
generations graphics card not supporting VGA cores anymore. For example I
have several newer graphics cards for intel with DVI ports instead of VGA.
Once the market is flooded with DVI monitors and graphics cards there is no
need for VGA core support anymore.
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 10:35:54AM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
>
> On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> >
> > What about two new options to replace the old CONFIG_EMBEDDED?
>
> If it's just a naming issue for you, then yes, we could change the current
> EXPERIMENTAL/BROKEN/EMBEDDED questions around a bit.
>
> So we could split the EMBEDDED question into "STANDARD" (which implies VT,
> INPUT layer, PS/2 ATKBD) and "FEATURECOMPLETE" (FUTEX, EPOLL, NET).
>
> Is it worth it? I see EMBEDDED as more of a "STANDARD" thing - for people
> who don't care or know, that's a slight safety-net saying "this selects
> the things you take for grated".
So lets give it a shot then. This might clash with Christoph's patch,
if you've already applied it, but it otherwise applies to the current
bk.
===== arch/i386/defconfig 1.101 vs edited =====
--- 1.101/arch/i386/defconfig Wed Aug 20 12:10:15 2003
+++ edited/arch/i386/defconfig Fri Aug 22 13:41:24 2003
@@ -20,7 +20,8 @@
# CONFIG_BSD_PROCESS_ACCT is not set
CONFIG_SYSCTL=y
CONFIG_LOG_BUF_SHIFT=15
-# CONFIG_EMBEDDED is not set
+CONFIG_STANDARD=y
+# CONFIG_NONSTD_ABI is not set
CONFIG_KALLSYMS=y
CONFIG_FUTEX=y
CONFIG_EPOLL=y
===== drivers/char/Kconfig 1.16 vs edited =====
--- 1.16/drivers/char/Kconfig Fri Aug 22 09:52:20 2003
+++ edited/drivers/char/Kconfig Fri Aug 22 13:43:59 2003
@@ -5,8 +5,9 @@
menu "Character devices"
config VT
- bool "Virtual terminal" if EMBEDDED
+ bool "Virtual terminal" if !STANDARD
select INPUT
+ select VT_CONSOLE if STANDARD
default y
---help---
If you say Y here, you will get support for terminal devices with
@@ -36,7 +37,7 @@
shiny Linux system :-)
config VT_CONSOLE
- bool "Support for console on virtual terminal" if EMBEDDED
+ bool "Support for console on virtual terminal"
depends on VT
default y
---help---
===== drivers/input/Kconfig 1.5 vs edited =====
--- 1.5/drivers/input/Kconfig Wed Jul 16 10:39:32 2003
+++ edited/drivers/input/Kconfig Fri Aug 22 13:45:40 2003
@@ -5,7 +5,10 @@
menu "Input device support"
config INPUT
- tristate "Input devices (needed for keyboard, mouse, ...)" if EMBEDDED
+ tristate "Input devices (needed for keyboard, mouse, ...)"
+ select INPUT_MOUSEDEV if STANDARD
+ select INPUT_KEYBDEV if STANDARD && X86
+ select SERIO if STANDARD && X86
default y
---help---
Say Y here if you have any input device (mouse, keyboard, tablet,
@@ -27,8 +29,9 @@
comment "Userland interfaces"
config INPUT_MOUSEDEV
- tristate "Mouse interface" if EMBEDDED
+ tristate "Mouse interface"
default y
+ select INPUT_MOUSEDEV_PSAUX if STANDARD
depends on INPUT
---help---
Say Y here if you want your mouse to be accessible as char devices
@@ -45,7 +48,7 @@
a module, say M here and read <file:Documentation/modules.txt>.
config INPUT_MOUSEDEV_PSAUX
- bool "Provide legacy /dev/psaux device" if EMBEDDED
+ bool "Provide legacy /dev/psaux device"
default y
depends on INPUT_MOUSEDEV
===== drivers/input/keyboard/Kconfig 1.6 vs edited =====
--- 1.6/drivers/input/keyboard/Kconfig Wed Jul 16 10:39:32 2003
+++ edited/drivers/input/keyboard/Kconfig Fri Aug 22 13:45:11 2003
@@ -2,8 +2,9 @@
# Input core configuration
#
config INPUT_KEYBOARD
- bool "Keyboards" if EMBEDDED || !X86
+ bool "Keyboards"
default y
+ select KEYBOARD_ATKBD if STANDARD && X86
depends on INPUT
help
Say Y here, and a list of supported keyboards will be displayed.
@@ -12,7 +13,7 @@
If unsure, say Y.
config KEYBOARD_ATKBD
- tristate "AT keyboard support" if EMBEDDED || !X86
+ tristate "AT keyboard support"
default y
depends on INPUT && INPUT_KEYBOARD && SERIO
help
===== drivers/input/serio/Kconfig 1.9 vs edited =====
--- 1.9/drivers/input/serio/Kconfig Wed Jul 16 10:39:32 2003
+++ edited/drivers/input/serio/Kconfig Fri Aug 22 13:39:13 2003
@@ -2,7 +2,8 @@
# Input core configuration
#
config SERIO
tristate "Serial i/o support (needed for keyboard and mouse)"
+ select SERIO_I8042 if STANDARD && X86
default y
---help---
Say Yes here if you have any input device that uses serial I/O to
@@ -19,7 +20,7 @@
as a module, say M here and read <file:Documentation/modules.txt>.
config SERIO_I8042
- tristate "i8042 PC Keyboard controller" if EMBEDDED || !X86
+ tristate "i8042 PC Keyboard controller"
default y
depends on SERIO
---help---
===== drivers/video/console/Kconfig 1.18 vs edited =====
--- 1.18/drivers/video/console/Kconfig Wed Jul 16 10:39:32 2003
+++ edited/drivers/video/console/Kconfig Fri Aug 22 13:27:21 2003
@@ -5,7 +5,7 @@
menu "Console display driver support"
config VGA_CONSOLE
- bool "VGA text console" if EMBEDDED || !X86
+ bool "VGA text console" if STANDARD && X86
depends on !ARCH_ACORN && !ARCH_EBSA110 || !4xx && !8xx
default y
help
===== init/Kconfig 1.22 vs edited =====
--- 1.22/init/Kconfig Wed Aug 20 22:30:10 2003
+++ edited/init/Kconfig Fri Aug 22 13:28:51 2003
@@ -145,8 +145,14 @@
This option enables access to kernel configuration file and build
information through /proc/ikconfig.
+config STANDARD
+ bool "Enable standard kernel features"
+ default y
+ help
+ This option will automatically select some standard kernel
+ features that you almost certainly want.
-menuconfig EMBEDDED
+menuconfig NONSTD_ABI
bool "Remove kernel features (for embedded systems)"
help
This option allows certain base kernel features to be removed from
@@ -155,7 +161,7 @@
are doing.
config KALLSYMS
- bool "Load all symbols for debugging/kksymoops" if EMBEDDED
+ bool "Load all symbols for debugging/kksymoops" if NONSTD_ABI
default y
help
Say Y here to let the kernel print out symbolic crash information and
@@ -163,7 +169,7 @@
somewhat, as all symbols have to be loaded into the kernel image.
config FUTEX
- bool "Enable futex support" if EMBEDDED
+ bool "Enable futex support" if NONSTD_ABI
default y
help
Disabling this option will cause the kernel to be built without
@@ -171,7 +177,7 @@
run glibc-based applications correctly.
config EPOLL
- bool "Enable eventpoll support" if EMBEDDED
+ bool "Enable eventpoll support" if NONSTD_ABI
default y
help
Disabling this option will cause the kernel to be built without
--
Tom Rini
http://gate.crashing.org/~trini/
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 06:38:00PM +0200, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> There's really no point in forcing in support for all kinds of
> optional input devices unless CONFIG_EMBEDDED. Also some of the
> selections really broke configs that worked fine before as indicated
> by the reports on lkml. Instead select CONFIG_INPUT if CONFIG_VT
> is selected so people upgrading from 2.4 using make oldconfig have
> a chance to see it if they didn't need CONFIG_INPUT before.
>
> Btw, could we please get a consensus on what CONFIG_EMBEDDED is
> supposed to mean? It was introduced to allow compiling code out
> for special cases that normal userspace should be able to rely
> on like epoll and futexes but people seem to use it as an Aunt Tillie
> guard these days..
I think this is the way to go. I'm merging this into my tree now.
> --- 1.15/drivers/char/Kconfig Wed Jul 16 13:39:32 2003
> +++ edited/drivers/char/Kconfig Sun Aug 10 11:17:02 2003
> @@ -5,8 +5,8 @@
> menu "Character devices"
>
> config VT
> - bool "Virtual terminal" if EMBEDDED
> - requires INPUT=y
> + bool "Virtual terminal"
> + select INPUT
> default y
> ---help---
> If you say Y here, you will get support for terminal devices with
> @@ -36,7 +36,7 @@
> shiny Linux system :-)
>
> config VT_CONSOLE
> - bool "Support for console on virtual terminal" if EMBEDDED
> + bool "Support for console on virtual terminal"
> depends on VT
> default y
> ---help---
[snip]
--
Vojtech Pavlik
SuSE Labs, SuSE CR
Mike Fedyk <[email protected]> writes:
> I think I like CONFIG_NONSTD_ABI better.
ABIs are typically thought of as being CPU/platform-specific, so this
seems wrong -- an embedded platform may in fact standardize on never
having `big unix' features X, Y, & Z.
-Miles
--
Would you like fries with that?
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Tom Rini wrote:
> --- 1.18/drivers/video/console/Kconfig Wed Jul 16 10:39:32 2003
> +++ edited/drivers/video/console/Kconfig Fri Aug 22 13:27:21 2003
> @@ -5,7 +5,7 @@
> menu "Console display driver support"
>
> config VGA_CONSOLE
> - bool "VGA text console" if EMBEDDED || !X86
> + bool "VGA text console" if STANDARD && X86
> depends on !ARCH_ACORN && !ARCH_EBSA110 || !4xx && !8xx
> default y
> help
Ugh, this makes VGA_CONSOLE default to yes if X86 is not set, right? Don't you
want
bool "VGA text console" if !STANDARD || X86
?
Or do I need an update course on Kconfig syntax?
Gr{oetje,eeting}s,
Geert
--
Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- [email protected]
In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But
when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that.
-- Linus Torvalds
On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 06:13:32PM +0200, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Tom Rini wrote:
> > --- 1.18/drivers/video/console/Kconfig Wed Jul 16 10:39:32 2003
> > +++ edited/drivers/video/console/Kconfig Fri Aug 22 13:27:21 2003
> > @@ -5,7 +5,7 @@
> > menu "Console display driver support"
> >
> > config VGA_CONSOLE
> > - bool "VGA text console" if EMBEDDED || !X86
> > + bool "VGA text console" if STANDARD && X86
> > depends on !ARCH_ACORN && !ARCH_EBSA110 || !4xx && !8xx
> > default y
> > help
>
> Ugh, this makes VGA_CONSOLE default to yes if X86 is not set, right? Don't you
> want
>
> bool "VGA text console" if !STANDARD || X86
>
> ?
>
> Or do I need an update course on Kconfig syntax?
No, I think that's a logic error on my part. What I intended was
default to Y on (STANDARD && X86), otherwise ask. So it should have
been:
bool "VGA text console" if !(STANDARD && X86)
--
Tom Rini
http://gate.crashing.org/~trini/
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Tom Rini wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 06:13:32PM +0200, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
> > On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Tom Rini wrote:
> > > --- 1.18/drivers/video/console/Kconfig Wed Jul 16 10:39:32 2003
> > > +++ edited/drivers/video/console/Kconfig Fri Aug 22 13:27:21 2003
> > > @@ -5,7 +5,7 @@
> > > menu "Console display driver support"
> > >
> > > config VGA_CONSOLE
> > > - bool "VGA text console" if EMBEDDED || !X86
> > > + bool "VGA text console" if STANDARD && X86
> > > depends on !ARCH_ACORN && !ARCH_EBSA110 || !4xx && !8xx
> > > default y
> > > help
> >
> > Ugh, this makes VGA_CONSOLE default to yes if X86 is not set, right? Don't you
> > want
> >
> > bool "VGA text console" if !STANDARD || X86
Oops, and I meant !X86, of course.
> > ?
> >
> > Or do I need an update course on Kconfig syntax?
>
> No, I think that's a logic error on my part. What I intended was
> default to Y on (STANDARD && X86), otherwise ask. So it should have
> been:
> bool "VGA text console" if !(STANDARD && X86)
OK, that's equivalent to what I had in mind :-)
Gr{oetje,eeting}s,
Geert
--
Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- [email protected]
In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But
when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that.
-- Linus Torvalds
BTW, what about adding a `suggests' keyword to Kconfig, cfr. Debian package
dependencies?
Gr{oetje,eeting}s,
Geert
--
Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- [email protected]
In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But
when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that.
-- Linus Torvalds