Hi all.
I'm delighted to announce that I've accepted a call to serve a congregation in
Victoria, Australia, as a Home Missionary elder. As a result, some time in
the next month or two, I will stop working for Cyclades and make the move.
Users of Suspend2 can rest assured that I will not allow the patches to suffer
bitrot. I will be continuing to use them myself, and will therefore have the
best of incentives to keep them up-to-date.
Now for the downside: I won't, however, be making any sort of concerted effort
at getting them merged into the vanilla kernel after my move, and am not
inclined to make a big effort beforehand. Recent discussions on LKML clearly
showed that Pavel doesn't want to see them merged, and I didn't see much in
the way of other kernel developers expressing a desire contrary to Pavel's
wishes. I don't want to waste my time and effort, so I don't see the point to
doing anything but maintaining the patches as they stand.
I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Cyclades for their employment and
support of the project.
Regards,
Nigel
--
See our web page for Howtos, FAQs, the Wiki and mailing list info.
http://www.suspend2.net IRC: #suspend2 on Freenode
Hi Nigel,
congratulations and all the best, although this sounds like a sad
goodbye and resignation. I always hoped for inclusion in mainline and
followed the "discussions" on lkml, although Pavel never made an effort
to hide his ignorant arrogance. Mainline swsusp never worked for me and
so with you leaving I am tempted to leave Linux behind after more than
ten years and switch to that other OS that at least has working suspend
and resume. Or maybe I'll try that "patched" MacOS for x86 :). To you,
again, all the best and thanks for providing some hope in one of the
darker Linux corners for quite some time.
Regards, Thomas.
Am Dienstag, den 07.03.2006, 10:05 +1000 schrieb Nigel Cunningham:
> Hi all.
>
> I'm delighted to announce that I've accepted a call to serve a congregation in
> Victoria, Australia, as a Home Missionary elder. As a result, some time in
> the next month or two, I will stop working for Cyclades and make the move.
>
> Users of Suspend2 can rest assured that I will not allow the patches to suffer
> bitrot. I will be continuing to use them myself, and will therefore have the
> best of incentives to keep them up-to-date.
>
> Now for the downside: I won't, however, be making any sort of concerted effort
> at getting them merged into the vanilla kernel after my move, and am not
> inclined to make a big effort beforehand. Recent discussions on LKML clearly
> showed that Pavel doesn't want to see them merged, and I didn't see much in
> the way of other kernel developers expressing a desire contrary to Pavel's
> wishes. I don't want to waste my time and effort, so I don't see the point to
> doing anything but maintaining the patches as they stand.
>
> I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Cyclades for their employment and
> support of the project.
>
> Regards,
>
> Nigel
> _______________________________________________
> Suspend2-announce mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.suspend2.net/mailman/listinfo/suspend2-announce
Hi!
> I'm delighted to announce that I've accepted a call to serve a congregation in
> Victoria, Australia, as a Home Missionary elder. As a result, some time in
> the next month or two, I will stop working for Cyclades and make the move.
Good luck in whatever you'll do!
Pavel
--
Web maintainer for suspend.sf.net (http://www.sf.net/projects/suspend) wanted...
On ?t 07-03-06 14:14:00, Thomas Maier wrote:
> Hi Nigel,
>
> congratulations and all the best, although this sounds like a sad
> goodbye and resignation. I always hoped for inclusion in mainline and
> followed the "discussions" on lkml, although Pavel never made an effort
> to hide his ignorant arrogance.
At least you can't say I was dishonest :-/.
> Mainline swsusp never worked for me and
> so with you leaving I am tempted to leave Linux behind after more than
> ten years and switch to that other OS that at least has working suspend
> and resume.
Your choice... But it would be more productive to read the docs, go to
the latest kernel, and if it does not work there, file
bugzilla.kernel.org report.
[stripped suspend2 lists -- I guess that's offtopic there.]
Pavel
--
Web maintainer for suspend.sf.net (http://www.sf.net/projects/suspend) wanted...
Hi.
On Wednesday 08 March 2006 22:21, Pavel Machek wrote:
> Hi!
>
> > I'm delighted to announce that I've accepted a call to serve a
> > congregation in Victoria, Australia, as a Home Missionary elder. As a
> > result, some time in the next month or two, I will stop working for
> > Cyclades and make the move.
>
> Good luck in whatever you'll do!
Thanks.
You haven't gotten confused like slashdot and kerneltrap, have you? I'm not
going away. Just switching careers back to Christian ministry. I'll still be
maintaining the suspend2 patches.
Regards,
Nigel
--
See our web page for Howtos, FAQs, the Wiki and mailing list info.
http://www.suspend2.net IRC: #suspend2 on Freenode
Nigel Cunningham wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> I'm delighted to announce that I've accepted a call to serve a congregation in
> Victoria, Australia, as a Home Missionary elder. As a result, some time in
> the next month or two, I will stop working for Cyclades and make the move.
>
> Users of Suspend2 can rest assured that I will not allow the patches to suffer
> bitrot. I will be continuing to use them myself, and will therefore have the
> best of incentives to keep them up-to-date.
I think you for all your work, and I hope that your new calling will be
satisfying!
>
> Now for the downside: I won't, however, be making any sort of concerted effort
> at getting them merged into the vanilla kernel after my move, and am not
> inclined to make a big effort beforehand. Recent discussions on LKML clearly
> showed that Pavel doesn't want to see them merged, and I didn't see much in
> the way of other kernel developers expressing a desire contrary to Pavel's
> wishes. I don't want to waste my time and effort, so I don't see the point to
> doing anything but maintaining the patches as they stand.
I have never had any problems with Suspend1 in terms of SUSPEND,
although I was hoping at some time that RESUME functionality would be
added as well ;-) Suspend2 has worked for my laptops, and I'm delighted
that you will be continuing your work.
>
> I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Cyclades for their employment and
> support of the project.
--
-bill davidsen ([email protected])
"The secret to procrastination is to put things off until the
last possible moment - but no longer" -me
Am Mittwoch, den 08.03.2006, 13:25 +0100 schrieb Pavel Machek:
> On Út 07-03-06 14:14:00, Thomas Maier wrote:
> > Hi Nigel,
> >
> > congratulations and all the best, although this sounds like a sad
> > goodbye and resignation. I always hoped for inclusion in mainline and
> > followed the "discussions" on lkml, although Pavel never made an effort
> > to hide his ignorant arrogance.
>
> At least you can't say I was dishonest :-/.
:).
> > Mainline swsusp never worked for me and
> > so with you leaving I am tempted to leave Linux behind after more than
> > ten years and switch to that other OS that at least has working suspend
> > and resume.
>
> Your choice... But it would be more productive to read the docs, go to
> the latest kernel, and if it does not work there, file
> bugzilla.kernel.org report.
This is sort of a mandelbug to me. Might you give me a hint what to do
if I only got problems every now and then? Because it works sometimes
but hangs my machine silently occasionally on resume (suspend actually
always works). Sometimes I get 20 suspend/resume cycles, sometimes I do
not even get a single one. With growing kernel versions (from 2.6.9 to
2.6.13 or 14 (last one I checked)) the number of cycles seemed to drop
down to lower values (like two to five), although I do not really have
collected data and this is more of a feeling. I doubt it is a different
set of modules loaded as my typical session is always very similar with
always the same hardware plugged in (a notebook, Gnome, Firefox,
Evolution, Eclipse, several terminals). I use the hibernate script from
the hibernate Debian package.
Unfortunately, I am not kernel developer's darling, as I will not be
able to test different kernel versions and/or patches quickly. This is
my work machine and it is my only one, so I can at most hack it on
weekends (and these days I even work on weekends). Plus I am more the
luser kind of user. Sure, I patched and compiled several kernels but I
always felt uncomfortable doing it :).
The only useful thing I could imagine is to try to boot a very minimal
system and try a lot of cycles and see if it hangs there, too. But even
then I see only little hope to file a helpful bug report that might lead
to finding a solution.
Suggestions? Thomas.
On Tue, 2006-03-07 at 14:50 -0500, Bill Davidsen wrote:
> I have never had any problems with Suspend1 in terms of SUSPEND,
> although I was hoping at some time that RESUME functionality would be
> added as well ;-)
Got a link to the bug report?
Lee
On Wednesday 08 March 2006 18:45, Thomas Maier wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, den 08.03.2006, 13:25 +0100 schrieb Pavel Machek:
> > On Út 07-03-06 14:14:00, Thomas Maier wrote:
}-- snip --{
> > > Mainline swsusp never worked for me and
> > > so with you leaving I am tempted to leave Linux behind after more than
> > > ten years and switch to that other OS that at least has working suspend
> > > and resume.
Frankly that's something I really don't understand. swsusp is supposed to
work (actually with 2.6.16-rc5-mm2 it works for me 100% of the time) and
if it doesn't work for you, there's a bug and it should be fixed. Yet, you
don't report it, so it is unknown to anyone except for you and there's no
hope anyone will actually work on fixing it.
> > Your choice... But it would be more productive to read the docs, go to
> > the latest kernel, and if it does not work there, file
> > bugzilla.kernel.org report.
>
> This is sort of a mandelbug to me. Might you give me a hint what to do
> if I only got problems every now and then? Because it works sometimes
> but hangs my machine silently occasionally on resume (suspend actually
> always works). Sometimes I get 20 suspend/resume cycles, sometimes I do
> not even get a single one. With growing kernel versions (from 2.6.9 to
> 2.6.13 or 14 (last one I checked)) the number of cycles seemed to drop
> down to lower values (like two to five), although I do not really have
> collected data and this is more of a feeling.
Then could you please get some data? Also full dmesg and lsmod listing
from your system will help, as well as the output of lspci -vvv.
> I doubt it is a different set of modules loaded as my typical session is
> always very similar with always the same hardware plugged in (a notebook,
> Gnome, Firefox, Evolution, Eclipse, several terminals). I use the hibernate
> script from the hibernate Debian package.
>
> Unfortunately, I am not kernel developer's darling, as I will not be
> able to test different kernel versions and/or patches quickly. This is
> my work machine and it is my only one, so I can at most hack it on
> weekends (and these days I even work on weekends). Plus I am more the
> luser kind of user. Sure, I patched and compiled several kernels but I
> always felt uncomfortable doing it :).
If you can try 2.6.16 when it's out and see how it works for you wrt
suspend/resume, that will help either.
Greetings,
Rafael
Hi!
> The only useful thing I could imagine is to try to boot a very minimal
> system and try a lot of cycles and see if it hangs there, too. But even
> then I see only little hope to file a helpful bug report that might lead
> to finding a solution.
Yes, that would be useful. If it works on minimal system (text-only,
as little modules as possible), and breaks on full system, you should
be able to binary-search for module breaking it...
Pavel
--
Web maintainer for suspend.sf.net (http://www.sf.net/projects/suspend) wanted...
On Monday 06 March 2006 15:05, Nigel Cunningham wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> I'm delighted to announce that I've accepted a call to serve a congregation
> in Victoria, Australia, as a Home Missionary elder. As a result, some time
> in the next month or two, I will stop working for Cyclades and make the
> move.
That's a new term for me. What is "Home Missionary elder" and what church
will you be serving at?
j----- k-----
--
Joshua Kugler PGP Key: http://pgp.mit.edu/
CDE System Administrator ID 0xDB26D7CE
http://distance.uaf.edu/
Hi.
On Wednesday 08 March 2006 05:50, Bill Davidsen wrote:
> > Users of Suspend2 can rest assured that I will not allow the patches to
> > suffer bitrot. I will be continuing to use them myself, and will
> > therefore have the best of incentives to keep them up-to-date.
>
> I think you for all your work, and I hope that your new calling will be
> satisfying!
Thanks :)
> > Now for the downside: I won't, however, be making any sort of concerted
> > effort at getting them merged into the vanilla kernel after my move, and
> > am not inclined to make a big effort beforehand. Recent discussions on
> > LKML clearly showed that Pavel doesn't want to see them merged, and I
> > didn't see much in the way of other kernel developers expressing a desire
> > contrary to Pavel's wishes. I don't want to waste my time and effort, so
> > I don't see the point to doing anything but maintaining the patches as
> > they stand.
>
> I have never had any problems with Suspend1 in terms of SUSPEND,
> although I was hoping at some time that RESUME functionality would be
> added as well ;-) Suspend2 has worked for my laptops, and I'm delighted
> that you will be continuing your work.
I don't think of swsusp as suspend1 - in my mind, Suspend1 was the version I
released before suspend2 :). That said, I obviously know what you mean. It
should work - they're basically the same. The main difference that would make
Suspend2 work for you would be that I've sometimes included the odd driver
fix in the suspend2 patch to save people having to go searching, and have (my
bad) been too slow at pushing them upstream.
Regards,
Nigel
--
See our web page for Howtos, FAQs, the Wiki and mailing list info.
http://www.suspend2.net IRC: #suspend2 on Freenode
On Wed, 2006-03-08 at 13:25 +0100, Pavel Machek wrote:
> On ?t 07-03-06 14:14:00, Thomas Maier wrote:
> > Hi Nigel,
> >
> > congratulations and all the best, although this sounds like a sad
> > goodbye and resignation. I always hoped for inclusion in mainline and
> > followed the "discussions" on lkml, although Pavel never made an effort
> > to hide his ignorant arrogance.
>
> At least you can't say I was dishonest :-/.
>
> > Mainline swsusp never worked for me and
> > so with you leaving I am tempted to leave Linux behind after more than
> > ten years and switch to that other OS that at least has working suspend
> > and resume.
didnt work on my laptop either, or one of my friends where i tried..
however, swsusp2 does..
>
> Your choice... But it would be more productive to read the docs, go to
> the latest kernel, and if it does not work there, file
> bugzilla.kernel.org report.
yeah well.. IMO merging suspend2 is more productive, as i see it, it has
no downsides as to software suspend as of now, except IA64 support, and
it has ALOT of upsides.
>
> [stripped suspend2 lists -- I guess that's offtopic there.]
> Pavel
> > > Mainline swsusp never worked for me and
> > > so with you leaving I am tempted to leave Linux behind after more than
> > > ten years and switch to that other OS that at least has working suspend
> > > and resume.
> didnt work on my laptop either, or one of my friends where i tried..
> however, swsusp2 does..
bugzilla IDs?
> > Your choice... But it would be more productive to read the docs, go to
> > the latest kernel, and if it does not work there, file
> > bugzilla.kernel.org report.
> yeah well.. IMO merging suspend2 is more productive, as i see it, it has
> no downsides as to software suspend as of now, except IA64 support, and
> it has ALOT of upsides.
Except that suspend2 is not going to be merged, for variety of
reasons. One of them is that noone is working on merging it...
So yes, filling bugzilla entries would be more productive than flaming
me.
Pavel
--
Web maintainer for suspend.sf.net (http://www.sf.net/projects/suspend) wanted...
On Thu, 2006-03-09 at 12:45 +0100, Pavel Machek wrote:
> > > > Mainline swsusp never worked for me and
> > > > so with you leaving I am tempted to leave Linux behind after more than
> > > > ten years and switch to that other OS that at least has working suspend
> > > > and resume.
> > didnt work on my laptop either, or one of my friends where i tried..
> > however, swsusp2 does..
>
> bugzilla IDs?
have none, and i know this is very bad, however i didnt feel like i had
any useful information to contribute, all i get is black screen, nothing
to syslog, i have no serial port on my laptop..
>
> > > Your choice... But it would be more productive to read the docs, go to
> > > the latest kernel, and if it does not work there, file
> > > bugzilla.kernel.org report.
> > yeah well.. IMO merging suspend2 is more productive, as i see it, it has
> > no downsides as to software suspend as of now, except IA64 support, and
> > it has ALOT of upsides.
>
> Except that suspend2 is not going to be merged, for variety of
> reasons. One of them is that noone is working on merging it...
>
one of them being the operative word, afaik, nigel was unwilling to work
on the issues needed for merging for the reason that it wouldnt be
merged..
out of personal interrest, why is it that prevents suspend2 from being
merged?
> So yes, filling bugzilla entries would be more productive than flaming
> me.
my post wasnt flaming, and wasnt intended to do so either.
> Pavel
On Thu 09-03-06 15:55:44, Kasper Sandberg wrote:
> On Thu, 2006-03-09 at 12:45 +0100, Pavel Machek wrote:
> > > > > Mainline swsusp never worked for me and
> > > > > so with you leaving I am tempted to leave Linux behind after more than
> > > > > ten years and switch to that other OS that at least has working suspend
> > > > > and resume.
> > > didnt work on my laptop either, or one of my friends where i tried..
> > > however, swsusp2 does..
> >
> > bugzilla IDs?
> have none, and i know this is very bad, however i didnt feel like i had
> any useful information to contribute, all i get is black screen, nothing
> to syslog, i have no serial port on my laptop..
printk/mdelay seems to work pretty well for swsusp debugging. As does
trying it again with as little modules as possible.
> > Except that suspend2 is not going to be merged, for variety of
> > reasons. One of them is that noone is working on merging it...
> >
> one of them being the operative word, afaik, nigel was unwilling to work
> on the issues needed for merging for the reason that it wouldnt be
> merged..
>
> out of personal interrest, why is it that prevents suspend2 from being
> merged?
Mostly doing too much stuff in kernel, see archives for details.
--
Thanks, Sharp!
Hi.
On Friday 10 March 2006 00:55, Kasper Sandberg wrote:
> > Except that suspend2 is not going to be merged, for variety of
> > reasons. One of them is that noone is working on merging it...
>
> one of them being the operative word, afaik, nigel was unwilling to work
> on the issues needed for merging for the reason that it wouldnt be
> merged..
Yes. The only reason I'm not going to commit myself to getting carried away
with seeking to merge it is that you've clearly stated that you don't want to
see it merged, and you haven't been overruled by other kernel maintainers
(with perhaps the occasional exception, sometimes privately). If they came
along to the party and said "Pavel, get your act together. Suspend2 isn't as
invasive or ugly as you're making it out to be." (or something similar), I'd
see some point to working on merging it. If they want to tell me to submit it
again or prove that's the case, I'm more than willing to hear that. But while
the only feedback is users saying "I wish it was merged" and Pavel saying
"Ain't going to happen", what am I meant to do?
Regards,
Nigel
On P? 10-03-06 07:34:36, Nigel Cunningham wrote:
> Hi.
>
> On Friday 10 March 2006 00:55, Kasper Sandberg wrote:
> > > Except that suspend2 is not going to be merged, for variety of
> > > reasons. One of them is that noone is working on merging it...
> >
> > one of them being the operative word, afaik, nigel was unwilling to work
> > on the issues needed for merging for the reason that it wouldnt be
> > merged..
>
> Yes. The only reason I'm not going to commit myself to getting carried away
> with seeking to merge it is that you've clearly stated that you don't want to
> see it merged, and you haven't been overruled by other kernel
> maintainers
Unless I'm missing something, Kasper is not the one who stated
anything about merging suspend2...
Pavel
--
163:
On Thu, 2006-03-09 at 23:41 +0100, Pavel Machek wrote:
> On P? 10-03-06 07:34:36, Nigel Cunningham wrote:
> > Hi.
> >
> > On Friday 10 March 2006 00:55, Kasper Sandberg wrote:
> > > > Except that suspend2 is not going to be merged, for variety of
> > > > reasons. One of them is that noone is working on merging it...
> > >
> > > one of them being the operative word, afaik, nigel was unwilling to work
> > > on the issues needed for merging for the reason that it wouldnt be
> > > merged..
> >
> > Yes. The only reason I'm not going to commit myself to getting carried away
> > with seeking to merge it is that you've clearly stated that you don't want to
> > see it merged, and you haven't been overruled by other kernel
> > maintainers
>
> Unless I'm missing something, Kasper is not the one who stated
> anything about merging suspend2...
i do wish suspend2 to get merged, however, if there are issues so that
its a risk, i can understand it wont being merged just now, but as nigel
just said, he is willing to work on it, if it then will be merged, which
puts the ball in your hand.
i hope for this to happen :)
> Pavel
On Wed, Mar 08, 2006 at 09:39:05PM +0100, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> On Wednesday 08 March 2006 18:45, Thomas Maier wrote:
> > Am Mittwoch, den 08.03.2006, 13:25 +0100 schrieb Pavel Machek:
> > > On ??t 07-03-06 14:14:00, Thomas Maier wrote:
> }-- snip --{
> > > > Mainline swsusp never worked for me and
> > > > so with you leaving I am tempted to leave Linux behind after more than
> > > > ten years and switch to that other OS that at least has working suspend
> > > > and resume.
>
> Frankly that's something I really don't understand. swsusp is supposed to
> work (actually with 2.6.16-rc5-mm2 it works for me 100% of the time) and
> if it doesn't work for you, there's a bug and it should be fixed. Yet, you
> don't report it, so it is unknown to anyone except for you and there's no
> hope anyone will actually work on fixing it.
I have the opposite problem, more or less (S3 not swsusp):
I have two identical (except for different model drives) Thinkpad T42
laptops that exhibit the same behavior. S3 mostly works but occasionally
fails to resume, for values of occasionally that vary between 1-2 successful
resumes before failure to several dozens.
Unfortunately, having recently been bitten by kernel-userspace API breakages
(probably udev but it's been a while ago and I don't really care anymore)
for the first time in a decade of constant Linux usage, I have not tracked
mainline since about 2.6.12 and instead rely on my vendor kernel plus
private patches as recommended over and over on this list. Therefore, no
bug report from me. But I have the highest confidence that someone with a
Centrino laptop and enough free time to run the most recent vanilla kernel
will eventually file a bug and some kernel developer will eventually fix it.
In the meantime, I just rely on swsusp or pray that a pre-S3 "sync" and ext3
journalling will be good enough. Sad but true.
If anyone is willing to work with me on tracking down the issue in a vendor
kernel (Ubuntu Dapper), I would be more than happy to apply debug patches
and supply any debug info requested.
--
Write a wise saying and your name will live forever.
-- Anonymous
On Fri, Mar 17, 2006 at 10:08:46PM -0800, Tom Marshall wrote:
> I have the opposite problem, more or less (S3 not swsusp):
>
> I have two identical (except for different model drives) Thinkpad T42
> laptops that exhibit the same behavior. S3 mostly works but occasionally
> fails to resume, for values of occasionally that vary between 1-2 successful
> resumes before failure to several dozens.
> If anyone is willing to work with me on tracking down the issue in a vendor
> kernel (Ubuntu Dapper), I would be more than happy to apply debug patches
> and supply any debug info requested.
AFAIK Ubuntu always uses "vbetool post" and "vbetool vbestate save/restore"
on most Thinkpads.
I'd say - get rid of this and instead put "acpi_sleep=s3_bios,s3_mode" on
the kernel command line. The whole vbetool magic is a bit suspicious to me.
--
Stefan Seyfried \ "I didn't want to write for pay. I
QA / R&D Team Mobile Devices \ wanted to be paid for what I write."
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, N?rnberg \ -- Leonard Cohen
> On Fri, Mar 17, 2006 at 10:08:46PM -0800, Tom Marshall wrote:
>
>> I have the opposite problem, more or less (S3 not swsusp):
>>
>> I have two identical (except for different model drives) Thinkpad T42
>> laptops that exhibit the same behavior. S3 mostly works but occasionally
>> fails to resume, for values of occasionally that vary between 1-2 successful
>> resumes before failure to several dozens.
>
>> If anyone is willing to work with me on tracking down the issue in a vendor
>> kernel (Ubuntu Dapper), I would be more than happy to apply debug patches
>> and supply any debug info requested.
Try Randy Dunlop's libata-acpi patches -- they cured suspend/resume (RAM)
on my (Dell) notebook, which previously suffered like your Thinkpad.
-ml