Hi,
studying the three documents
WLAN 5GHz (Vfg. 7/2010)
http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38216/publicationFile/6579/WLAN5GHzVfg7_2010_28042010pdf.pdf
WLAN 2.4GHz (Vfg. 89/2003)
http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38214/publicationFile/2557/FundstelleId313pdf.pdf
Frequenznutzungsplan
http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38448/publicationFile/2659/Frequenznutzungsplan2008_Id17448pdf.pdf
I think the data in db.txt is slightly inaccurate.
Find below my suggested entry into db.txt.
Suggested changes:
* Updated references (they restructured their webserver/CMS it seems)
* Split 5150 -- 5350 range into two
- the first range does not require DFS
* 5470 -- 5725 does not have a NO-OUTDOOR requirement
- (and 500mW translates to 27db, not 26db AFAICT)
Sidenote: The values include lowering txpower by a factor of 2 (3db)
for non TPC devices -- the wording in Vfg. 7/2010 does NOT require
this for 5150 -- 5250; so we could actually use 200mW/23db there. As
this is out of line with the neighbour countries, I have sticked with
the conservative value of 100mW here.
What is the process for checking the correctness and getting the crda DB
updated?
8<------------------------------------------------------------------------
# Data from "Frequenznutzungsplan" (as published in April 2008), downloaded from
# http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38448/publicationFile/2659/Frequenznutzungsplan2008_Id17448pdf.pdf
# For the 5GHz range also see
# http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38216/publicationFile/6579/WLAN5GHzVfg7_2010_28042010pdf.pdf
# The values have been reduced by a factor of 2 (3db) for non TPC devcies
# (in other words: devices with TPC can use twice the tx power of this table).
country DE:
# entries 279004 and 280006
(2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW)
# entry 303005
(5150 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR
# entries 304002 and 305002
(5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
# entries 308002, 309001 and 310003
(5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500 mW), DFS
8<------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Or in db, as displayed by iw reg get)
country DE:
(2400 - 2483 @ 40), (N/A, 20)
(5150 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 20), NO-OUTDOOR
(5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 20), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
(5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 27), DFS
PS: I'm not subscribed, please copy responses to me.
Best,
--
Kurt Garloff <[email protected]> [Private, Koeln]
Linux: VP OPS PartnerEng <[email protected]> [Novell Inc]
Luis,
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 03:20:24PM -0700, Luis R. Rodriguez wrote:
> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Kurt Garloff <[email protected]> wrote:
> > country DE:
> > ? ? ? ?# entries 279004 and 280006
> > ? ? ? ?(2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW)
> > ? ? ? ?# entry 303005
> > ? ? ? ?(5150 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR
> > ? ? ? ?# entries 304002 and 305002
> > ? ? ? ?(5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> > ? ? ? ?# entries 308002, 309001 and 310003
> > ? ? ? ?(5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500 mW), DFS
> >
> > 8<------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > (Or in db, as displayed by iw reg get)
> > country DE:
> > ? ? ? ?(2400 - 2483 @ 40), (N/A, 20)
> > ? ? ? ?(5150 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 20), NO-OUTDOOR
> > ? ? ? ?(5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 20), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> > ? ? ? ?(5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 27), DFS
> >
> > PS: I'm not subscribed, please copy responses to me.
>
> Thanks for the e-mail and your review, I've passed this to our
> regulatory gods and it is now being picked at and reviewed.
Thanks.
Two more remarks:
- Having looked at the framework how we handle this regulatory stuff
in Linux these days, it looks very reasonable to me -- good job!
- The frequencies above (from Frequenznutzungsplan = freq. util. plan)
are really the limits of the frequency ranges to be used, not channel
center freqs. So if we'd have to put possible center freqs in there
and assume 22MHz (+-11MHz) for the 2.4 GHz range, we'd need to put
2411 -- 2472.5 in the DB. Likewise, assuming 20MHz (+-10MHz for the
5GHz range, we'd specify 5160 -- 5240, 5240 -- 5340 and 5480 -- 5715),
of, for 40MHz(+-20MHz) channels, it would be 5170 -- 5230, 5230 --
5330 and 5490 -- 5705. Such values are displayed with iw reg get
for our neighbors NL, FR, ... which gave me the idea that we might
not have the real boundaries in the db, but center freqs.
That said, I'd think real boundaries make more sense, as channel
widths may evolve over time ...
Thanks,
--
Kurt Garloff, VP OPS Partner Engineering -- Novell Inc.
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Kurt Garloff <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> studying the three documents
>
> WLAN 5GHz (Vfg. 7/2010)
> http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38216/publicationFile/6579/WLAN5GHzVfg7_2010_28042010pdf.pdf
>
> WLAN 2.4GHz (Vfg. 89/2003)
> http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38214/publicationFile/2557/FundstelleId313pdf.pdf
>
> Frequenznutzungsplan
> http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38448/publicationFile/2659/Frequenznutzungsplan2008_Id17448pdf.pdf
>
> I think the data in db.txt is slightly inaccurate.
>
> Find below my suggested entry into db.txt.
> Suggested changes:
> * Updated references (they restructured their webserver/CMS it seems)
> * Split 5150 -- 5350 range into two
> - the first range does not require DFS
> * 5470 -- 5725 does not have a NO-OUTDOOR requirement
> - (and 500mW translates to 27db, not 26db AFAICT)
>
> Sidenote: The values include lowering txpower by a factor of 2 (3db)
> for non TPC devices -- the wording in Vfg. 7/2010 does NOT require
> this for 5150 -- 5250; so we could actually use 200mW/23db there. As
> this is out of line with the neighbour countries, I have sticked with
> the conservative value of 100mW here.
>
> What is the process for checking the correctness and getting the crda DB
> updated?
>
> 8<------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> # Data from "Frequenznutzungsplan" (as published in April 2008), downloaded from
> # http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38448/publicationFile/2659/Frequenznutzungsplan2008_Id17448pdf.pdf
> # For the 5GHz range also see
> # http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38216/publicationFile/6579/WLAN5GHzVfg7_2010_28042010pdf.pdf
> # The values have been reduced by a factor of 2 (3db) for non TPC devcies
> # (in other words: devices with TPC can use twice the tx power of this table).
>
> country DE:
> # entries 279004 and 280006
> (2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW)
> # entry 303005
> (5150 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR
> # entries 304002 and 305002
> (5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> # entries 308002, 309001 and 310003
> (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500 mW), DFS
>
> 8<------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> (Or in db, as displayed by iw reg get)
> country DE:
> (2400 - 2483 @ 40), (N/A, 20)
> (5150 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 20), NO-OUTDOOR
> (5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 20), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 27), DFS
>
> PS: I'm not subscribed, please copy responses to me.
Thanks for the e-mail and your review, I've passed this to our
regulatory gods and it is now being picked at and reviewed.
Luis
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:48 PM, Kurt Garloff <[email protected]> wrote:
> Luis,
>
> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 03:20:24PM -0700, Luis R. Rodriguez wrote:
>> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Kurt Garloff <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > country DE:
>> > # entries 279004 and 280006
>> > (2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW)
>> > # entry 303005
>> > (5150 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR
>> > # entries 304002 and 305002
>> > (5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
>> > # entries 308002, 309001 and 310003
>> > (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500 mW), DFS
>> >
>> > 8<------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > (Or in db, as displayed by iw reg get)
>> > country DE:
>> > (2400 - 2483 @ 40), (N/A, 20)
>> > (5150 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 20), NO-OUTDOOR
>> > (5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 20), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
>> > (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 27), DFS
>> >
>> > PS: I'm not subscribed, please copy responses to me.
>>
>> Thanks for the e-mail and your review, I've passed this to our
>> regulatory gods and it is now being picked at and reviewed.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Two more remarks:
> - Having looked at the framework how we handle this regulatory stuff
> in Linux these days, it looks very reasonable to me -- good job!
Thanks! Thank Johannes as well :)
> - The frequencies above (from Frequenznutzungsplan = freq. util. plan)
> are really the limits of the frequency ranges to be used, not channel
> center freqs. So if we'd have to put possible center freqs in there
> and assume 22MHz (+-11MHz) for the 2.4 GHz range, we'd need to put
> 2411 -- 2472.5 in the DB. Likewise, assuming 20MHz (+-10MHz for the
> 5GHz range, we'd specify 5160 -- 5240, 5240 -- 5340 and 5480 -- 5715),
> of, for 40MHz(+-20MHz) channels, it would be 5170 -- 5230, 5230 --
> 5330 and 5490 -- 5705. Such values are displayed with iw reg get
> for our neighbors NL, FR, ... which gave me the idea that we might
> not have the real boundaries in the db, but center freqs.
> That said, I'd think real boundaries make more sense, as channel
> widths may evolve over time ...
The db.txt rules uses the exact ranges, not the center of freq, the
bandwidth indicates the maximum bandwidth allowed. We had also revised
on linux-wireless some changes to make for future more complex
considerations. For details see:
http://wireless.kernel.org/en/developers/todo-list
Luis
Johannes,
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 10:37:26AM +0200, Johannes Berg wrote:
> > 8<------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > # Data from "Frequenznutzungsplan" (as published in April 2008), downloaded from
> > # http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38448/publicationFile/2659/Frequenznutzungsplan2008_Id17448pdf.pdf
> > # For the 5GHz range also see
> > # http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38216/publicationFile/6579/WLAN5GHzVfg7_2010_28042010pdf.pdf
> > # The values have been reduced by a factor of 2 (3db) for non TPC devcies
> > # (in other words: devices with TPC can use twice the tx power of this table).
> >
> > country DE:
> > # entries 279004 and 280006
> > (2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW)
> > # entry 303005
> > (5150 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR
> > # entries 304002 and 305002
> > (5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> > # entries 308002, 309001 and 310003
> > (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500 mW), DFS
>
> I haven't verified the entries in the Frequenznutzungsplan itself, but
> according to the second document this seems fine. I think there ought to
> be a comment in the db.txt file indicating the rationale for using 100mW
> rather than 200mW.
OK, new suggestion.
8<------------------------------------------------------------------------
# Data from "Frequenznutzungsplan" (as published in April 2008), downloaded from
# http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38448/publicationFile/2659/Frequenznutzungsplan2008_Id17448pdf.pdf
# For the 5GHz range also see
# http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38216/publicationFile/6579/WLAN5GHzVfg7_2010_28042010pdf.pdf
# The values have been reduced by a factor of 2 (3db) for non TPC devices
# (in other words: devices with TPC can use twice the tx power of this table).
# Note that the docs do not require TPC for 5150--5250; the reduction to
# 100mW thus is not strictly required -- however the conservative 100mW
# limit is used here as the non-interference with radar and satellite
# apps relies on the attenuation by the building walls only in the
# absence of DFS; the neighbour countries have 100mW limit here as well.
country DE:
# entries 279004 and 280006
? ? ? ?(2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW)
? ? ? ?# entry 303005
? ? ? ?(5150 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR
? ? ? ?# entries 304002 and 305002
? ? ? ?(5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
? ? ? ?# entries 308002, 309001 and 310003
? ? ? ?(5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500 mW), DFS
8<------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can we actually put several entries covering the same frequency range?
Then we could put 200mW for DFS and 100mW for non-DFS.
This would also address the next issue you raise ...
> Also note that there are different requirements depending on the channel
> bandwidth, which will eventually come up in Linux too. But I think for
> that we need the new database format for that ... yet another thing to
> do before we can support 5/10 MHz channels.
Indeed. For 5150 -- 5350, the spectral power density may not exceed
10mW/MHz (and overall emitted power in the range per device not 200mW);
this gives a limit of 200mW for 20MHz channels or 100mW if no TPC is
used for 5250 -- 5350. (For 5470--5725 use 5x those values.)
I'm not aware of WLAN devices with narrower channels yet, but if they
come into existence, we'd have to reflect it somehow ...
Best,
--
Kurt Garloff, VP OPS Partner Engineering -- Novell Inc.
Hi,
On Wed, 2010-05-19 at 19:29 +0200, Kurt Garloff wrote:
> WLAN 5GHz (Vfg. 7/2010)
> http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38216/publicationFile/6579/WLAN5GHzVfg7_2010_28042010pdf.pdf
> Find below my suggested entry into db.txt.
> Suggested changes:
> * Updated references (they restructured their webserver/CMS it seems)
> * Split 5150 -- 5350 range into two
> - the first range does not require DFS
> * 5470 -- 5725 does not have a NO-OUTDOOR requirement
> - (and 500mW translates to 27db, not 26db AFAICT)
>
> Sidenote: The values include lowering txpower by a factor of 2 (3db)
> for non TPC devices -- the wording in Vfg. 7/2010 does NOT require
> this for 5150 -- 5250; so we could actually use 200mW/23db there. As
> this is out of line with the neighbour countries, I have sticked with
> the conservative value of 100mW here.
>
> What is the process for checking the correctness and getting the crda DB
> updated?
>
> 8<------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> # Data from "Frequenznutzungsplan" (as published in April 2008), downloaded from
> # http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38448/publicationFile/2659/Frequenznutzungsplan2008_Id17448pdf.pdf
> # For the 5GHz range also see
> # http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38216/publicationFile/6579/WLAN5GHzVfg7_2010_28042010pdf.pdf
> # The values have been reduced by a factor of 2 (3db) for non TPC devcies
> # (in other words: devices with TPC can use twice the tx power of this table).
>
> country DE:
> # entries 279004 and 280006
> (2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW)
> # entry 303005
> (5150 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR
> # entries 304002 and 305002
> (5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> # entries 308002, 309001 and 310003
> (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500 mW), DFS
I haven't verified the entries in the Frequenznutzungsplan itself, but
according to the second document this seems fine. I think there ought to
be a comment in the db.txt file indicating the rationale for using 100mW
rather than 200mW.
Also note that there are different requirements depending on the channel
bandwidth, which will eventually come up in Linux too. But I think for
that we need the new database format for that ... yet another thing to
do before we can support 5/10 MHz channels.
johannes
On Tue, 2010-05-25 at 17:14 +0200, Kurt Garloff wrote:
>
> OK, new suggestion.
>
> 8<------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> # Data from "Frequenznutzungsplan" (as published in April 2008), downloaded from
> # http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38448/publicationFile/2659/Frequenznutzungsplan2008_Id17448pdf.pdf
> # For the 5GHz range also see
> # http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38216/publicationFile/6579/WLAN5GHzVfg7_2010_28042010pdf.pdf
> # The values have been reduced by a factor of 2 (3db) for non TPC devices
> # (in other words: devices with TPC can use twice the tx power of this table).
> # Note that the docs do not require TPC for 5150--5250; the reduction to
> # 100mW thus is not strictly required -- however the conservative 100mW
> # limit is used here as the non-interference with radar and satellite
> # apps relies on the attenuation by the building walls only in the
> # absence of DFS; the neighbour countries have 100mW limit here as well.
>
> country DE:
> # entries 279004 and 280006
> (2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW)
> # entry 303005
> (5150 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR
> # entries 304002 and 305002
> (5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> # entries 308002, 309001 and 310003
> (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500 mW), DFS
Ok, that looks fine to me.
> Can we actually put several entries covering the same frequency range?
> Then we could put 200mW for DFS and 100mW for non-DFS.
> This would also address the next issue you raise ...
I think you're confusing DFS and TPC requirements? Anyway, no, we can't
right now.
> > Also note that there are different requirements depending on the channel
> > bandwidth, which will eventually come up in Linux too. But I think for
> > that we need the new database format for that ... yet another thing to
> > do before we can support 5/10 MHz channels.
>
> Indeed. For 5150 -- 5350, the spectral power density may not exceed
> 10mW/MHz (and overall emitted power in the range per device not 200mW);
> this gives a limit of 200mW for 20MHz channels or 100mW if no TPC is
> used for 5250 -- 5350. (For 5470--5725 use 5x those values.)
> I'm not aware of WLAN devices with narrower channels yet, but if they
> come into existence, we'd have to reflect it somehow ...
They exist, we just don't support them right now ... I put it on the
todo list for now.
johannes
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 05:14:29PM +0200, Kurt Garloff wrote:
> OK, new suggestion.
>
> 8<------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> # Data from "Frequenznutzungsplan" (as published in April 2008), downloaded from
> # http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38448/publicationFile/2659/Frequenznutzungsplan2008_Id17448pdf.pdf
> # For the 5GHz range also see
> # http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38216/publicationFile/6579/WLAN5GHzVfg7_2010_28042010pdf.pdf
> # The values have been reduced by a factor of 2 (3db) for non TPC devices
> # (in other words: devices with TPC can use twice the tx power of this table).
> # Note that the docs do not require TPC for 5150--5250; the reduction to
> # 100mW thus is not strictly required -- however the conservative 100mW
> # limit is used here as the non-interference with radar and satellite
> # apps relies on the attenuation by the building walls only in the
> # absence of DFS; the neighbour countries have 100mW limit here as well.
>
> country DE:
> # entries 279004 and 280006
> ? ? ? ?(2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW)
> ? ? ? ?# entry 303005
> ? ? ? ?(5150 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR
> ? ? ? ?# entries 304002 and 305002
> ? ? ? ?(5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> ? ? ? ?# entries 308002, 309001 and 310003
> ? ? ? ?(5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500 mW), DFS
>
> 8<------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is this what we want? Are you going to submit an actual patch?
John
--
John W. Linville Someday the world will need a hero, and you
[email protected] might be all we have. Be ready.
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:36 PM, John W. Linville
<[email protected]> wrote:
> From: Kurt Garloff <[email protected]>
>
> http://marc.info/?l=linux-wireless&m=127480075306482&w=2
>
> Cc: "Luis R. Rodriguez" <[email protected]>
> Acked-by: Johannes Berg <[email protected]>
> Signed-off-by: John W. Linville <[email protected]>
> ---
> Time to clear the logjam...
Michael, are you subscribed to wireless-regdb now? Did you get this e-mail? ACK?
Luis
> db.txt | 24 +++++++++++++++++-------
> 1 files changed, 17 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-)
>
> diff --git a/db.txt b/db.txt
> index e63a43e..40a8bbc 100644
> --- a/db.txt
> +++ b/db.txt
> @@ -176,17 +176,27 @@ country CZ:
> (5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 200 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 1000 mW), DFS
>
> -# Data from "Frequenznutzungsplan" (as published in April 2008),
> -# downloaded from http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/media/archive/13358.pdf
> -# Also applicable is http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/media/archive/5009.pdf
> -# On the 5 GHz ranges TX power can be doubled if TPC is implemented.
> +# Data from "Frequenznutzungsplan" (as published in April 2008), downloaded from
> +# http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38448/publicationFile/2659/Frequenznutzungsplan2008_Id17448pdf.pdf
> +# For the 5GHz range also see
> +# http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38216/publicationFile/6579/WLAN5GHzVfg7_2010_28042010pdf.pdf
> +# The values have been reduced by a factor of 2 (3db) for non TPC devices
> +# (in other words: devices with TPC can use twice the tx power of this table).
> +# Note that the docs do not require TPC for 5150--5250; the reduction to
> +# 100mW thus is not strictly required -- however the conservative 100mW
> +# limit is used here as the non-interference with radar and satellite
> +# apps relies on the attenuation by the building walls only in the
> +# absence of DFS; the neighbour countries have 100mW limit here as well.
> +
> country DE:
> # entries 279004 and 280006
> (2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW)
> - # entries 303005, 304002 and 305002
> - (5150 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> + # entry 303005
> + (5150 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR
> + # entries 304002 and 305002
> + (5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> # entries 308002, 309001 and 310003
> - (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> + (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500 mW), DFS
>
> country DK:
> (2402 - 2482 @ 40), (N/A, 20)
> --
> 1.7.3.2
>
>
FWIW, I'm out on Friday anyway -- it's my birthday! :-)
On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 01:23:42PM -0800, Michael Green wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I am on PTO until Monday. Do I need to read this now and respond or can it wait? I am not asking you to hold anything up due to me. But if you want me to give feedback on something, pls let me know if it can wait until Mon.
>
> Michael Green
> Atheros Communications, Inc.
> [email protected]
> Desk: +1-781-400-1491
> Mobile: +1-508-380-4921
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Luis R. Rodriguez [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 1:29 PM
> To: John W. Linville; Michael Green
> Cc: [email protected]; Johannes Berg; Kurt Garloff; [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [PATCH] wireless-regdb: update rules for DE
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:36 PM, John W. Linville
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > From: Kurt Garloff <[email protected]>
> >
> > http://marc.info/?l=linux-wireless&m=127480075306482&w=2
> >
> > Cc: "Luis R. Rodriguez" <[email protected]>
> > Acked-by: Johannes Berg <[email protected]>
> > Signed-off-by: John W. Linville <[email protected]>
> > ---
> > Time to clear the logjam...
>
> Michael, are you subscribed to wireless-regdb now? Did you get this e-mail? ACK?
>
> Luis
>
> > ?db.txt | ? 24 +++++++++++++++++-------
> > ?1 files changed, 17 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-)
> >
> > diff --git a/db.txt b/db.txt
> > index e63a43e..40a8bbc 100644
> > --- a/db.txt
> > +++ b/db.txt
> > @@ -176,17 +176,27 @@ country CZ:
> > ? ? ? ?(5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 200 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> > ? ? ? ?(5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 1000 mW), DFS
> >
> > -# Data from "Frequenznutzungsplan" (as published in April 2008),
> > -# downloaded from http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/media/archive/13358.pdf
> > -# Also applicable is http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/media/archive/5009.pdf
> > -# On the 5 GHz ranges TX power can be doubled if TPC is implemented.
> > +# Data from "Frequenznutzungsplan" (as published in April 2008), downloaded from
> > +# http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38448/publicationFile/2659/Frequenznutzungsplan2008_Id17448pdf.pdf
> > +# For the 5GHz range also see
> > +# http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38216/publicationFile/6579/WLAN5GHzVfg7_2010_28042010pdf.pdf
> > +# The values have been reduced by a factor of 2 (3db) for non TPC devices
> > +# (in other words: devices with TPC can use twice the tx power of this table).
> > +# Note that the docs do not require TPC for 5150--5250; the reduction to
> > +# 100mW thus is not strictly required -- however the conservative 100mW
> > +# limit is used here as the non-interference with radar and satellite
> > +# apps relies on the attenuation by the building walls only in the
> > +# absence of DFS; the neighbour countries have 100mW limit here as well.
> > +
> > ?country DE:
> > ? ? ? ?# entries 279004 and 280006
> > ? ? ? ?(2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW)
> > - ? ? ? # entries 303005, 304002 and 305002
> > - ? ? ? (5150 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> > + ? ? ? # entry 303005
> > + ? ? ? (5150 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR
> > + ? ? ? # entries 304002 and 305002
> > + ? ? ? (5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> > ? ? ? ?# entries 308002, 309001 and 310003
> > - ? ? ? (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> > + ? ? ? (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500 mW), DFS
> >
> > ?country DK:
> > ? ? ? ?(2402 - 2482 @ 40), (N/A, 20)
> > --
> > 1.7.3.2
> >
> >
--
John W. Linville ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Someday the world will need a hero, and you
[email protected] ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?might be all we have. ?Be ready.
From: Kurt Garloff <[email protected]>
http://marc.info/?l=linux-wireless&m=127480075306482&w=2
Cc: "Luis R. Rodriguez" <[email protected]>
Acked-by: Johannes Berg <[email protected]>
Signed-off-by: John W. Linville <[email protected]>
---
Time to clear the logjam...
db.txt | 24 +++++++++++++++++-------
1 files changed, 17 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-)
diff --git a/db.txt b/db.txt
index e63a43e..40a8bbc 100644
--- a/db.txt
+++ b/db.txt
@@ -176,17 +176,27 @@ country CZ:
(5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 200 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
(5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 1000 mW), DFS
-# Data from "Frequenznutzungsplan" (as published in April 2008),
-# downloaded from http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/media/archive/13358.pdf
-# Also applicable is http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/media/archive/5009.pdf
-# On the 5 GHz ranges TX power can be doubled if TPC is implemented.
+# Data from "Frequenznutzungsplan" (as published in April 2008), downloaded from
+# http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38448/publicationFile/2659/Frequenznutzungsplan2008_Id17448pdf.pdf
+# For the 5GHz range also see
+# http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38216/publicationFile/6579/WLAN5GHzVfg7_2010_28042010pdf.pdf
+# The values have been reduced by a factor of 2 (3db) for non TPC devices
+# (in other words: devices with TPC can use twice the tx power of this table).
+# Note that the docs do not require TPC for 5150--5250; the reduction to
+# 100mW thus is not strictly required -- however the conservative 100mW
+# limit is used here as the non-interference with radar and satellite
+# apps relies on the attenuation by the building walls only in the
+# absence of DFS; the neighbour countries have 100mW limit here as well.
+
country DE:
# entries 279004 and 280006
(2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW)
- # entries 303005, 304002 and 305002
- (5150 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
+ # entry 303005
+ (5150 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR
+ # entries 304002 and 305002
+ (5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
# entries 308002, 309001 and 310003
- (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
+ (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500 mW), DFS
country DK:
(2402 - 2482 @ 40), (N/A, 20)
--
1.7.3.2
Luis,
thanks for explaining.
Michael,
This is about Germany (DE) not Danmark (DK) ...
Devices without DFS would not have worked before in Germany.
Best,
--
Kurt Garloff, VP OPS Partner Engineering -- Novell Inc.
SUSE: Supporting Linux since 1992.
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 09:12:55AM -0800, Luis R. Rodriguez wrote:
> No Michael, let me review the patch with you and I'll comment on each
> change it makes to make it clear to you. The lines with no - or + on
> the left mean that the line is left intact, its present just for
> reference. The lines with - mean that the line is being removed. The
> lines with + mean that the line is being added. So we have:
>
> # entries 279004 and 280006
> (2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW)
> - # entries 303005, 304002 and 305002
> - (5150 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> + # entry 303005
> + (5150 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR
>
> So the 5150 - 5350 range is being reduced to 5150 - 5250 and removing
> DFS as a requirement for that range.
>
> + # entries 304002 and 305002
> + (5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
>
> The removed bit of frequency gets added back but with DFS left as a requirement.
>
> # entries 308002, 309001 and 310003
> - (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> + (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500 mW), DFS
>
> And finally, the 5470 - 5725 range now is being changed to allow
> outdoor operation.
>
> Let me know if this makes things clearer.
>
> Luis
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 7:14 AM, Michael Green
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Is the issue that the regdb currently limits DK to 2.4GHz operation (5GHz is disabled)?
> >
> > If I understand this email string, then clearly DK should be corrected to enable 5GHz operation.
> >
> > I believe DK should be set to the same 5GHz channel and power settings per the Harmonized standard EN301 893. This is true of all countries that accept CE Marking.
> >
> > If this patch/issue is about something else, then please let me know.
> >
> > tks,
> >
> > Michael Green
> > Atheros Communications, Inc.
> > [email protected]
> > Desk: ? +1-781-400-1491
> > Mobile: +1-508-380-4921
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kurt Garloff [mailto:[email protected]]
> > Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 4:15 AM
> > To: John W. Linville
> > Cc: Michael Green; Luis R. Rodriguez; [email protected]; Johannes Berg; [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [PATCH] wireless-regdb: update rules for DE
> >
> > John,
> >
> > enjoy your birthday!
> >
> > Michael,
> >
> > enjoy vacation!
> >
> > I submitted this change 6 months ago.
> > I was surprised that my ath9k device would not do anything in the 5GHz band unlike all neighour countries, found out that this is due to the regulatory DB and started studying the regulations to see whether it's justified.
> >
> > A few days certainly don't make a difference here. Review carefully when you can get to it next week.
> >
> > Best,
> > --
> > Kurt Garloff, VP OPS Partner Engineering -- Novell Inc.
> > SUSE: Supporting Linux since 1992.
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 09:04:14PM -0500, John W. Linville wrote:
> >> FWIW, I'm out on Friday anyway -- it's my birthday! :-)
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 01:23:42PM -0800, Michael Green wrote:
> >> > Hi guys,
> >> >
> >> > I am on PTO until Monday. Do I need to read this now and respond or can it wait? ?I am not asking you to hold anything up due to me. But if you want me to give feedback on something, pls let me know if it can wait until Mon.
> >> >
> >> > Michael Green
> >> > Atheros Communications, Inc.
> >> > [email protected]
> >> > Desk: ? +1-781-400-1491
> >> > Mobile: +1-508-380-4921
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Luis R. Rodriguez [mailto:[email protected]]
> >> > Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 1:29 PM
> >> > To: John W. Linville; Michael Green
> >> > Cc: [email protected]; Johannes Berg; Kurt Garloff;
> >> > [email protected]
> >> > Subject: Re: [PATCH] wireless-regdb: update rules for DE
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:36 PM, John W. Linville
> >> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > > From: Kurt Garloff <[email protected]>
> >> > >
> >> > > http://marc.info/?l=linux-wireless&m=127480075306482&w=2
> >> > >
> >> > > Cc: "Luis R. Rodriguez" <[email protected]>
> >> > > Acked-by: Johannes Berg <[email protected]>
> >> > > Signed-off-by: John W. Linville <[email protected]>
> >> > > ---
> >> > > Time to clear the logjam...
> >> >
> >> > Michael, are you subscribed to wireless-regdb now? Did you get this e-mail? ACK?
> >> >
> >> > ? Luis
> >> >
> >> > > ?db.txt | ? 24 +++++++++++++++++-------
> >> > > ?1 files changed, 17 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-)
> >> > >
> >> > > diff --git a/db.txt b/db.txt
> >> > > index e63a43e..40a8bbc 100644
> >> > > --- a/db.txt
> >> > > +++ b/db.txt
> >> > > @@ -176,17 +176,27 @@ country CZ:
> >> > > ? ? ? ?(5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 200 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> >> > > ? ? ? ?(5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 1000 mW), DFS
> >> > >
> >> > > -# Data from "Frequenznutzungsplan" (as published in April 2008),
> >> > > -# downloaded from
> >> > > http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/media/archive/13358.pdf
> >> > > -# Also applicable is
> >> > > http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/media/archive/5009.pdf
> >> > > -# On the 5 GHz ranges TX power can be doubled if TPC is implemented.
> >> > > +# Data from "Frequenznutzungsplan" (as published in April 2008),
> >> > > +downloaded from #
> >> > > +http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38448/pub
> >> > > +licationFile/2659/Frequenznutzungsplan2008_Id17448pdf.pdf
> >> > > +# For the 5GHz range also see
> >> > > +#
> >> > > +http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/38216/pub
> >> > > +licationFile/6579/WLAN5GHzVfg7_2010_28042010pdf.pdf
> >> > > +# The values have been reduced by a factor of 2 (3db) for non TPC
> >> > > +devices # (in other words: devices with TPC can use twice the tx power of this table).
> >> > > +# Note that the docs do not require TPC for 5150--5250; the
> >> > > +reduction to # 100mW thus is not strictly required -- however the
> >> > > +conservative 100mW # limit is used here as the non-interference
> >> > > +with radar and satellite # apps relies on the attenuation by the
> >> > > +building walls only in the # absence of DFS; the neighbour countries have 100mW limit here as well.
> >> > > +
> >> > > ?country DE:
> >> > > ? ? ? ?# entries 279004 and 280006
> >> > > ? ? ? ?(2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW)
> >> > > - ? ? ? # entries 303005, 304002 and 305002
> >> > > - ? ? ? (5150 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> >> > > + ? ? ? # entry 303005
> >> > > + ? ? ? (5150 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR
> >> > > + ? ? ? # entries 304002 and 305002
> >> > > + ? ? ? (5250 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> >> > > ? ? ? ?# entries 308002, 309001 and 310003
> >> > > - ? ? ? (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> >> > > + ? ? ? (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 500 mW), DFS
> >> > >
> >> > > ?country DK:
> >> > > ? ? ? ?(2402 - 2482 @ 40), (N/A, 20)
> >> > > --
> >> > > 1.7.3.2
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >>
> >> --
> >> John W. Linville ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Someday the world will need a hero,
> >> and you [email protected] ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?might be all we have. ?Be ready.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
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